Archive for category Marriage

Date: March 1st, 2010
File Under: Celebrity, Entertainment, Marriage

Episode 37: Jerry Seinfeld: The Marriage Ref

Ok, so you’re having a marriage spat; your spouse is driving you up the wall and neither of you will budge, who will you call? How about Jerry Seinfeld? His new show on NBC, The Marriage Ref started last night. He is out to save marriages in America, come on out Jerry. This is kind of exciting to come back to primetime says Oprah. Jerry says there is no place in the world like this, it’s like being inside a feminine body part. Being on the Oprah show is like whitewater oestregen. A lot of feminine energy says Oprah. Oprah asks what made him want to come back to primetime? Jerry says he created a show, he’s been watching all these people making shows and wondered why he couldnt do it too. He wanted to make a show that didn’t depend on him being in it, night after night, not like Oprah’s one-man canoe. Oprah calls herself the lead sled-dog. The show is the idea, he is on it sometimes. The show is based on a difference of opinion with his wife Jessica, a friend of Jessica’s was there and got uncomfortable and said she should go. Jerry said no, you stay and sort this out. He doesn’t remember what the argument was about. Oprah says that arguments are not the thing that they appear to be about. Jerry and Jessica each stated their arguments, the friend listened and in 5 minutes it was sorted out. He said that’s what you need in marriage, a ref. That should be a TV show, said Jessica.

Oprah says that everyone is talking about a big celebrity marriage that is on the rocks, Jerry looks puzzled, Oprah says you know and whispers Tiger Woods. Jerry says oh they’re fine, he thought something happened. Oprah says that a marriage ref could could not come in to that. He says no it’s not funny enough, actually it’s too funny, that’s the problem. Oprah asks his opinion of it, and he says that it proves that golf is boring. Oprah claps and the crowd applaud. That was his first thought- Woods is dominating the game and has everything you can get from a sport and he is bored out his mind. Oprah asks his opinion on the Jay/ Conan thing. He says he loved it, he loves stupid. He was on the side of smart against stupid, as always, He couldn’t believe it went on for so long. Oprah has always admired Jerry since she interviewed him for the O Magazine. She was complaining about the end of summer, needing some time for herself, and Jerry said “it’s yours to design, Oprah”. And that’s what she’d doing now. Jerry doesn’t think you walk away from a show, most TV is selling a box of air and fluff. He says that there is some nutrition in what Oprah does. Oprah says that she aims for nutrition everyday, and Jerry says not in this one. She says that they will have some nutrition by the end.

The Marriage Ref takes us inside the intimate battles taking part in America’s marriages. Each week a celebrity panel debate the sides, like Tina Fey, Madonna, Ricky Gervais, but the final say is made by the Marriage Ref, standup comedian Tom Papa. Oprah asks if Jerry and Jessica have their own fighting rules. Jerry hates that Jessica has kicked coffee because she enjoys it. He needs to see her enjoy something, she should have it, she likes it. Tea is not the same, says Oprah. Jerry says tea is like yardwork. Jerry says that the Marriage Ref is very likeable, and the more of him you watch the more you need, it’s a good quality to have. Tom comes in. Oprah thinks that quality is wonderful, that people want you in their house. Tom says its a nice thing, you don’t want to be the person that everyone is waiting to leave. Oprah asks what he and his wife argue about. Tom has a Kindle and whenever he starts to read it, his wife thinks it’s a neon sign to start talking. Jerry has learned that he has a number of tones. When he was single, he didn’t have a tone, but now he has many. His wife discovered the first one, when he is parking and his wife is talking he has the car tone, the let me park the car we’ll talk later tone. He says that marriage is a musical. Tom’s tone is all grrr ” I don’t want to talk about this”. Women like to imitate how men talk, they do impressions. The men do the tones of their wives.

They have a new lingo for marriage arguments, “Kitchen Sinking It” is an argument about one issue, when the other throws in every thing that you’ve ever argued about. “Needle Across the Record Moment” is when couples argue and someone says someone so outrageous that it freezes everybody within a 6 block radius. Oprah says what about when someone says the most horrible thing you can think of. Tom says that’s when you take it to the limit, eg I wish you’d be here for breakfast and they say “At least I’m not at the bar sleeping with strippers”. Oprah says alot of men are using the Tiger Woods thing. “At least I…” is a good argument says Jerry.

Last night after the closing of the Olympics, we got a sneak preview of The Marriage Ref. Greg is trying to spice his life up with his wife Dianah by having a stripper pole in the bedroom. They can’t agree who is or is not respecting who. Greg says that it is for both of their gratification, Dianah disagrees. Alec Baldwin voted for the wife. Kelly Rippa sides with the wife, Jerry Seinfeld sided with the husband. Oprah has a show of hands in the audience, bring on the pole just won. Tom says that it’s not cut and dry because the guy wanted to spice things up with his wife, but there is nothing more unattractive than someone who doesn’t want to be on the pole. Greg and his wife are live from Skype. Greg does not accept the judgement, he says that it’s still going to happen. Tom says that it is not going to happen, having met Dianah. She took the doorknob off the bathroom after the show. That is the only place that she can go and have peace and quiet and wait him out until he’s asleep so that she doesn’t have to hear about the pole. Tom says that the program is so great because Dianah will always know that America agrees with her.

Oprah’s viewers sent in video tapes of some of their problems, Teri and Jim from Wausau, Wisconsin have a problem with tortoises in their living room- they have 5 in their home, 2 are almost 70lbs a piece. They have a whole refrigerator dedicated to the tortoises.She scoops their poo out of a paddling pool. Jim rode on the back of a tortoise, Jalopy, in Staten Island zoo as a child. It had a sarcoma and he had surgery received radiation therapy. It was a life-changing experience, he ended up being a physician specialising in radiation therapy, in large part because of Jalopy. Teri thinks if she grew a shell, she’d be part of Jim’s life forever. They are in the audience. To Jim, the tortoises are like puppies, pets. Jerry asks Teri where she was when this started, it needed to be nipped in the bud. Teri says that unlike children, the tortoises can’t grow up and move away, they can live to be a hundred. Tom clarifies that there are 5. Tom says that when you get married you think that you marry the person that you are attracted to But that’s not it, marriage is a big sloppy mess, you marry inlaws, uncles, etc. This is Teri’s big sloppy mess. He thinks that bizarre as this is, they have created a family with the two of them and the turtles and they have to keep them together. Oprah agrees- she has 5 dogs and couldn’t give one up. Jerry says that dogs are pets, turtles are not. Oprah and Tom think that this is a family. Jerry says that the turtles don’t know that they are there. Tom says that they are expressing themselves too slowly to tell. Jerry says that an animal has to have a face to be a pet, an expressive face. Jim says he loves the turtles as much as they love him. Jerry says I’ll bet, zero. Oprah says that maybe they are using them for love and shelter. Jim says they love him. Oprah and Tom say that there needs to be discussion about future tortoises. Jerry says that they don’t need to go to the pet store, they are in the pet store.

Thurday nights at 10pm on NBC, Jerry says that all marriages have ongoing spats which go on and on. Emily from North Carolina has been losing sleep- her husband Will sleeps on the screened in porch in 17 degree weather. He urinates in a frozen blue bucket at night. They slept in the bed together for the first 6 years of their marriage, but the last two years he’s been on the porch at night. He loves to sleep out under the stars hearing the creek. They have a 2 year old and she wants to spend time together. He has dreams of the Appalachian trail, which he has decided to bring to the backyard. Jerry says that he loves the “under the stars” thing, but he’s on a porch with a roof, there’s no stars, in 4 seconds you’re asleep anyway. He say Will is out of his mind, he needs to go to camp with the other kids. The couple join them by Skype. Jerry says that they need to compromise and sleep together at least some of the time. Will says that the bed creaks and he gets up to go to the bathroom and his wife gets upset if he misses the toilet or leaves the seat up, so now he has a bucket outside. Oprah asks if everything else is ok in their marriage, they say yes. Tom asks who empties the bucket. Jerry asks why is he going in a bucket- Oprah says for the compost pile. Tom says that when you’re married, few people enjoy the actual sleeping in the same bed part, he snores, his wife talks. Kings and queens used to sleep in separate quarters and meet for shared time. Using a bucket outside, Gary is no king. Tom says that they need to worry about what they are doing to their son’s perceptions of things. He says Will has to get back in the bed as the creaking is not nearly as bad as the bucket.

Sonia and Rob are from London and they sent in a tape- Rob opens things then opens another without finishing the first. He wants fresh all the time, he does the same with toilet rolls, He likes to use a good metre of toilet paper per wipe, and at the end of the roll, quite frankly there’s not enough left. He doesn’t throw it out incase Sonia wants to use it. They are on Skype. Sonia thinks that Rob should finish what he started. Oprah says that she is to the last drop. Tom hates that moment when you have to get the bit out the bottom of the jar. He doesn’t understand the toilet paper thing. Oprah says that Stedman went to get a new jar of almond butter and she wanted him to microwave the end of the jar that was there to get the last spoonful. Oprah knows how Sonia feels. Jerry says his advice is don’t be such a good accountant- don’t count everything, she’s playing accountant. She can get her own peanut butter. Tom as the ref makes the final call, and lets Rob win. Jerry says that this will not help anyone. On the show, they are not trying to do serious issues, they are just trying to have a laugh. The couples have to love each other. Jerry loves being married and has found that now the relationships with his male married friends have deepened. Single friends think they are in a relationship; Jerry says that they are playing wiffleball and he is in Iraq. Oprah laughs.

Oprah asks Jerry about Blackberry issues which started with their shared producer. Jerry can’t do the creepy head down thing where people are reading their Blackberry and looking at you with one eye. There is a need for Blackberry etiquette- when someone is talking you cannot check your Blackberry, period. Its like going to the hardware store when you have to wait while you are being served because the phone rings- you should prioritise real humans over virtual humans. He does not text or talk on the phone while he drives. He used to, but he lost a frind in a fatal accident who was on a phone. Tom had a headset through his iPhone which was more dangerous than talking. He now uses Bluetooth. Jerry and Tom are gven the pledge to sign. Oprah thanks them. It is a good thing says Jerry. Oprah says that it took us a long time to do this for drunk driving, and she wants to make it so that no more people have to die. Jerry says that Oprah is the only person who can do this, because it has to become a collective conscience thing, a what are we doing? Oprah thanks him and reminds that The Marriage Ref is on this Thursday at 10pm/ 9pm Central on NBC.

WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY:

Jerry Seinfeld believes that professional golf must be really, really boring.

Jerry Seinfeld says don’t be such a good accountant in relationships, don’t count everything.

Tom Papa says that marriage is a big sloppy mess.

There is a need for Blackberry etiquette- when someone is talking you cannot check your Blackberry.

Jerry Seinfeld says that Oprah is the only person who can do the No Phone Zone pledge, because it has to become a collective conscience thing.

A VERY QUICK SUMMARY:

Jerry Seinfeld says that animals need to have expressive faces in order to qualify as a pet.

Date: February 24th, 2010
File Under: Betrayal, Celebrity, Family, Marriage, Public Service Announcement, Relationships

Episode 34: Sex, Lies and Scandal

People across the country have been talking for weeks about the guy who took the fall for former senator John Edwards. He lied and said he was the father of John’s love child. Oprah has seen him on 20/20 and on a bunch of other shows, but she still has questions for him. Just in case you have been living under a rock, here’s a quick recap of his story.

Andrew Young was the right-hand man for John Edwards for more than a decade. He was next to the rising star through good times and bad. When tabloid stories broke suggesting that Edwards had fathered a love child with his mistress Rielle Hunter, Young did what most can’t fathom- the married father of three took the bullet for his boss and said the baby was his. In his new book The Politician, Andrew details how he helped his former boss carry on a two-year affair behind his wife’s back, while she battled cancer. It didn’t take long for the story to unravel- the lies, the cover up, and rumors of a sex-tape destroyed the career of the presidential hopeful.

Oprah welcomes Andrew Young to the studio. Oprah doesn’t normally watch other people’s TV shows, but she was watching the 20/20 piece and yelling at the TV. She thought that Bob Woodruff did a great job, but she wanted Andrew to answer more fully if looking back on this he sees that this was stupid. He says its stupid, immoral, ridiculous. Andrew says that he is scared to death of public speaking so perhaps his emotions didn’t come across. Cheri, his most wonderful wife, and he have lived with this for several years and she stayed with him through all this. Oprah says that is what we really don’t understand. Andrew says John Edwards was more than just his boss. He and his wife had worked with the Edwards’ and become close personal friends. He had volunteered for his Senate campaign in ‘97 and ‘98. And when he first met them, they were the most inspiring people to work for. He loved them. Andrew says he and John grew closer as their friendship evolved and John became like a big brother. They went to basketball games. Oprah says that in the book Andrew says Edwards was like a father to him, and Andrew clarifies that Edwards reminded him of his father.

Andrew’s wife Cheri, is a pediatric nurse. He says that 10 days after the Iowa caucasus, they had 12 hours before the National Enquirer would release photographs. Oprah backs up a little and says that Andrew had known of, and helped to cover up, the affair since 2006. The National Enquirer was going to reveal the discovery. Edwards called them at Petsmart when they were buying a turtle aquarium. He threw in what you’d expect—he said that the presidency is at stake. He talked off good versus evil, but the closing thing he said was, “Andrew, Elizabeth is about to die.” … He made them all believe that Elizabeth was going to die within a matter of weeks, it was imminenet. What he said was it would be a short term thing so that his wife didn’t die in disgrace, it wasn’t about the presidency. Andrew and Cheri had only 12 hours to make a decision. They made the wrong decision on so many different levels, but they truly believed in John Edwards. Andrew loved him like a big brother and loved Elizabeth like a big sister. He asks, does that make it right? Absolutely not.

Oprah asks what part of him could make it ok to tell that lie, that’s what she really can’t understand after reading the book and watching the interviews. She finds it to be bigger than taking the fall for John Edwards, it was about deceiving all of America that would vote for him. Oprah asks if a part of Andrew asked if he thought that this was the most crazy thing ever when he got the call. Andrew says he was sitting in a minivan outside of Petsmart looking at Edwards on the cover of Newsweek and it makes the argument about how he could win the presidency,- it was like a surreal bubble that came around him. He knows it doesn’t make sense. There was a part of him that was always on call when John needed help, if he was in hot water. He has records of all the phone calls, after the story was released, within 24-48 hours derogatory things were being said about Andrew by Edwards and the campaign.

When Elizabeth heard of the affair, Edwards said that he slept with Rielle one time, but that Andrew was having an affair. Andrew says that didn’t make any sense as Rielle was traveling with him all the time and he was at home with his family in North Carolina. Elizabeth then became angry with Andrew, as she thought he was immoral. But, he says, it was more than that, whenever she was suspicious of anything, he had become the one that she had come to blame things on. He was worried- the Edward camp had fired a lot of people. Elizabeth insisted that John fire Andrew, but John kept him because he was the fall guy. Andrew says that he should have noticed that he was being blamed whenever something was going on. Oprah asks if there were other women and he says there were things that he should have noticed. In the book, which he wrote when his father was dying, he writes no holds barred, warts and all. He speaks of all the ridiculously stupid things that he did to his family, to his wife. He tried to tell the truth about what modern presidential politics are like and how cutthroat it is.

According to Young, Edwards began his affair with Rielle Hunter in 2006, 10 months before he began his campaign. In May 2007, Hunter became pregnant while the campaign was in full swing. Edwards then hatched a plan that Young would claim to be the father. In December the press snapped a photo of a visibly pregnant Hunter and speculated that Edwards was the father. Young released a statement saying that he is the father at Edwards’ request, and he and his family and Rielle Hunter went into hiding at high end homes and hotels bankrolled by two of Edwards supporters.

Oprah says he talks of the comparison of love and devotion for his father and for Edwards, but she is wondering at what point do you feel that you are selling your soul? His Dad was a minister and got Andrew involved in politics- he had an affair of his own that destroyed his career. Obviously Andrew went through a lot with a therapist. Oprah thought that this would mean that he would do the opposite for Edwards. Andrew says it doesn’t make sense, it was as if he was trying to put Humpty Dumpty back on the wall to save his family from what they had gone through. There was a part of him that didn’t want this to happen to Edwards.

Oprah says take politics out of it; If Edwards was just his friend, and was doing something stupid, wouldn’t you just say stop that? Andrew says that most of your friends aren’t some of the most charismatic, powerful people in the world who intimidate you. Edwards was his friend, but also his boss. Oprah asks if they thought that they’d get away with it. Andrew says that they did get away with it that no one in the mainstream press… Oprah interrupts to say that no one in the public believed the story so they didn’t get away with it. The crowd applaud. Andrew asks to finish his sentence- from December to July when he was caught, Edwards led all the polls. Oprah says that the baby was down the road when Obama was meeting with Edwards about possibly being the vice president. She says that they all knew this- did they think they’d get away with it? Young says that in Washington, there’s a sense that once someone becomes president they can get away with anything with the billionaire lawyers. They didn’t think it was right but they were so far in. Oprah says it makes her so angry that they would all take the risk that Edwards could become Vice president or Attorney General, it’s not right. Andrew says that they were cut off from their families and were scared to death. Andew says that when he first met the Edwards’, their son had just died. All the things that Edwards wanted to do for poverty and healthcare- Andrew just loved him. He agrees that this means nothing if he lies about the baby and the relationship- what else could he deceive us on? Young says it gets worse- Edwards asked him to steal a diaper so he could prove it wasn’t his child with a DNA test. He kept out of that one. They were also asked to find a doctor who would fake the DNA result, and Edwards offered to sign an affidavit with the National Enquirer to say that he hadn’t done any of this. Oprah says she heard them say that the presidency was at stake, and this is why they did it- why would they want this lying deceiving person to be president when they have his mistress in their house? In December they did believe in him, despite those faults. Oprah apologises that she won’t let him answer the question, she’s just so frustrated. She says sometimes you make a decision, and you’re in the mess, and the mess just gets messier and messier. He says it’s like a rabbit hole- he worked 16 hours a day, 7 days a week for 8-9 years, so after this he was home with his kids and getting to put them to bed. Oprah says yes, but they were home with the mistress. They go to break.

They show the footage of John Edwards denying that Hunter’s baby is his in an interview on Nightline with Bob Woodruff. He denies that he knows who the baby is, and says that he would gladly take a paternity test. Edwards says that he doesn’t know if Andrew Young is the father. Oprah shakes her head and says “oh, please”. That was Edwards lying, she says. Cheri, Andrew’s wife is now in the studio. Oprah asks what they thought when they first saw that tape. They watched it together and it sent shivers up their spines. Andrew says he couldn’t lie that good if Cheri caught him drinking a beer in the garage. Edwards makes you believe him even though its all lies. He is sorry for what they did but also sorry for people across the country who gave money they couldn’t afford to the campaign, slept in gyms, and volunteered. A woman in the audience says that she gave $500 to John Edwards and she’d like her money back. The crowd applaud. Oprah says on behalf of all wives, what spirit allowed Cheri to say yes Rielle could move in with them. Cheri says he told me, Edwards wants me to claim the baby. She looked at him and simply said: “Why in the world would you even tell me about this? You say no. We have done enough.” She wants to let everyone know what they did for that family over the previous 8-9 years. They did everything, they both did. Cheri would cook breakfast. Whatever he wanted, whatever they needed. When they came back from D.C. and didn’t have a car, they used Cheri’s car. She was without a car. Or Andrew was without a car. It was extreme. They never, never said no. Andrew was so valuable to them.

Later that night, Andrew and Cheri had a long conversation and she still wasn’t on board. They had a call with John and Rielle, which Cheri just listened to. John said this was his chance. They’ve worked so hard, he was so close. Then he spoke of Elizabeth, that she was very ill. She was going to pass very soon. He could not, could not let her know this. They had two huge things in their lap- the presidency that he could win, and the family. Oprah interrupts to ask why they wanted him to be president when he was willing to carry on such a deception. Cheri says she didn’t think of that, only of her responsibility. Oprah says it’s every person who donated. Cheri says that the last two years have been hell, and they are paying for the consequences. Oprah asks if they wanted a role for themselves in DC if he became President, because that motivation she could at least understand. Andrew says he wanted to take the kids and work in different consulates, experience different countries. Cheri says that by this point they had done so much, invested so much, and this was Andrew’s career. He believed in Edwards so much; “America was fooled. We were all fooled”.

Oprah says would they have come clean if Edwards had said he would take care of them and set them up. Young says that they waited 2 years and that Edwards had promised that this would be a very short term thing. Within 2 weeks of Andrew’s book being published, after 2 years, Edwards announced that he’s the father, signed the custody papers and goes to see Rielle and so all these things happen as the book comes out. Cheri says that living these lies has been horrific. She was criticized for being happy in an interview and she was just so relieved that the truth was out. The lies that Elizabeth has told about them, mostly Andrew… Oprah asks if they feel that they also betrayed Elizabeth. Cheri says yes, and she’s very sorry that Elizabeth has a terminal illness but the thing that she doesn’t understand as a nurse (Oprah wipes away Cheri’s tears) working with childrens and families with various terminal illnesses- she doesn’t understand Elizabeth because of how she’s treated them. She’s seen interesting things with how she’s treated others, but they’ve always been safe. She doesn’t understand the voicemails – why would Elizabeth, if she knew the truth, why would she target her? And if she thought that Andrew was the father, why did she target her? The voicemails were downright bizarre and threatening. She called and said take care of your concubine… Oprah says that they must understand why Elizabeth is so upset. Andrew tries to interrupt and Cheri stops him and says that he listens to her now, he agrees, the audience laugh. Cheri tried to protect Elizabeth- Oprah asks if she protected her by harboring the mistress of her husband. Cheri says that now they know that they were wrong, wrong, wrong in their decision. Oprah says that in an interview with her, Elizabeth said that if the baby is or isn’t Johns, it has nothing to do with her, which Oprah thought was interesting. Any wife who has been lied to and deceived knows that- and she and Elizabeth talked about this off-camera- the feeling that everyone else knows but you. Andrew says that it has broken his heart that his best friend lied repeatedly and drove over him with a dump-truck- he can’t fathom what Elizabeth has gone through.They had to step up and take care of their own family. Oprah says she is surprised that Edwards didn’t take better care of them.After the baby was born he didn’t speak to them. They were in California away from their families and support structure.

For 8 months, they moved from house to house with Rielle. They show photos of Rielle very pregnant then with a newborn. Cheri admits that it looks like they were a happy family and they weren’t but they had to make do, for the children. Rielle stayed in one end of the house and they stayed at the other end. Oprah asks if they all got along. After a pause, Andrew chuckles and says no. Cheri says that they were polar opposites. Oprah asks what they were thinking? Andrew says that the baby was born in February and in March the Senator stopped speaking to him. The night the baby was born, Andrew called Edwards and told him to call. Edwards refused. A switch went off for Andrew, when he realised that not only was he disposable, everyone was disposable. On July 22nd, Edwards called and said he’d been caught, which was eerily like what happened with his father years before. Edwards was crying and distraught, Andrew said Senator please, don’t make a comment until they know what they have. Edwards got caught in the lies and half truths he told Elizabeth. the only person the Woodruff story made sense to was Elizabeth. He told her that Rielle had made him come to the hotel room because Andrew hadn’t paid child support, and that she was going to blackmail him about their one night stand, unless he paid child support. And that is why Elizabeth said why don’t you take care of your concubine on the voicemail says Oprah. Cheri wants to go back to talking about when they were living in California, when they wanted to get out. They didn’t feel that they could, they were controlled by three attorneys and millionaires and billionaires. They lived in California, they were building a house in North Carolina and didn’t know how the next month would pan out, how they’d pay for the house, where the kids would go to school. They had their health insurance paid for them…

Oprah asks if he was offered a lot of money for the alleged sex tape- Andrew says its not an alleged sex tape, it shows Edwards but not Rielle. They got alot of email offers but never took them up. Oprah asks what the tape shows, Andrew says no comment and Rielle says she’ll speak. Andrew says no and grabs her hand. Oprah says go ahead. Cheri says that Edwards is naked, performing sexual acts and the woman is holding the camera. Oprah thanks her for the information. Oprah asks if they ever thought of selling it- the mean thought may have crossed their minds but they never acted on it. They found it in July 08 and told him in August 08- Oprah says that she would be very nice to anyone with that tape. Andrew says that the Edwards’ had successfully got them kicked out the house they were renting- Oprah says that makes no sense- Cheri says the tape allowed them to get through the last two years of hell. Finally after being controlled by millionaires, Edwards got busted, they got dumped back in North Carolina and their house wasn’t done. This was the worst time for them but they’d found the tape in a bedroom that Rielle had stayed in. Oprah says that Edwards had to be out of his mind to be filmed naked when running for the presidency of the United States. Andrew thought it was narcissism gone wild. On top of this it was 3 1/2 months before the election and he was having sex with a visibly pregnant woman while his wife is dying of cancer. They left the tape in Andrew’s house that they were renting with realtors trooping in and out. Cheri says that the tape was her security after the millionaires and billionaires that had been controlling them. Was she going to do anything with it? No, but she had something to prove from what happened. Oprah asks what they learned from this, that there are huge life lessons to be learned from this. Rielle is suing them to return the photos and videos to her, and says that their statement that there is a visibly preganant woman on the video tape is false and her invasion of privacy has been horrifying. Oprah asks for their final thoughts- in the book Andrew speaks of his fathers betrayal and that he tried to make peace through the brother, father, friend figure- John. His dad taught him that we can make a positive difference from our actions. Andrew was seduced by the politics, power and money when the job with this viable world leader dropped into his lap. The things that matter the most, Andrew says he already has the. The lesson is that most of us have what we want already, money doesn’t change that. It made their marriage stronger. Cheri says that they have always had a strong love and trust for each other and with this they hit rock bottom and made it through. Now they are closer, the kids are great, she has her husband back and the kids have their daddy back and he listens to her. The book, The Politician, will have you screaming at the pages, according to Oprah. Both John and Elizabeth Edwards have released statements saying that the book contains false allegations and exaggerations. Edwards claims that Andrew Young is motivated by financial gains and media attention. Oprah appreciates that they allowed her to ask the questions that she still had, and hopefully the Young family can go home and don’t have to do another interview.

WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY:

Oprah doesn’t normally watch other people’s TV shows.

Filming a naked sex tape while running for the US Presidency is stupid.

Having an affair while your wife publicly battles cancer and you run for President is not a good thing to do.

Even if your boss is like a father/ brother/ friend to you, claiming that his love child is your love child will not be easily understood by others.

Narcissism gone wild will always end in tears.

A VERY QUICK SUMMARY:

Sometimes you make a decision, and you’re in a mess, and the mess just gets messier and messier.

Date: January 26th, 2010
File Under: Betrayal, Celebrity, Family, Marriage, Relationships, Uncategorized

Episode 13: Denise Richards and Mrs Ted Haggard: Surviving a Public Scandal

Actress Denise Richard says she knows what you might think of her, she has been called all the names in the book. For the last five years she has just taken it – the stares, the comments, the speculation- and now she’s ready to speak her mind. At the time of her divorce she took the high road, she was advised to keep quiet, she hoped it would blow over and it didn’t- it escalated and got really, really bad.. She survived it and now she’s here to speak her piece, and to offer hope to any woman in her situation. Oprah clarifies that she means that literally, after all the anger and emotional struggle, Denise now has peace. Denise says she had so much emotional difficulties at the time that she would not have been able to talk about this while she was living it, but now she has distanced herself, and that she and Charlie are now in a great place.

Denise Richards was the beautiful Midwestern girl who set her sights on Hollywood. She became a Bond Girl, and 2 years later got together with Charlie Sheen. They were red capet regulars, but she filed for divorce when pregnant with her second child. The battle raged on for more than four years, with accusations of drugs, pornography and prostitutes, and allegations that she stole her best friend’s husband. Denies and Charlie have called a truce. But on Christmas morning in Aspen Colorado, Charlie’s wife of 20 months, Brooke, called police saying that he had threatened her with a knife. They have twin baby boys. Denise got a collect call on Christmas Day from jail, her first reaction was is he ok? He told her that he and Brooke had got into a fight and Brooke called the cops, but he wanted to say Merry Christmas to the girls, Sammy and Lola. He called again when he got out of jail. Oprah recalls that he threatened Denise, as written in the divorce documents. Denise takes a deep breath and says that he was abusive at times. She can’t lie- he was abusive and threatening – there were times with much verbal abuse, which got very scary. He never hit her but he would push or shove her. It’s public knowlege that she had a restraining order against him because of this. She told Charlie she was coming on the show, she told him she would be honest, but there are some things she won’t reveal. Does Denise think he has a problem with managing his temper and with the way he treats her and his current wife? Yes, says Denise. He has a very sharp tongue- he played on Denise’s insecurities, which she acknowledges that we all do in relationships . Oprah interrupts to say that it is interesting that Denise said he never hit her, and so many women use the “he never hit me” calling card yet they cower in intimidation and manipulation. Denise says it’s easy to judge when you are on the outside. Denise loved him, she wanted it to work- she doesn’t love him now, he’s not the person she married. She cares for him and would help him out if necessary because he is her daughters father. There were some very dark times, with humiliation, particularly when she filed the restraining order. She was scared, embarrassed, terrified. She didn’t have any inkling when they married that the relationship would be volatile. He was 3 years sober when they met, which she admired, she thought that his past was in the past. Did she feel put upon because alot of the press was labelling her as a golddigger and man-stealer, when he was being threatening and abusive? Denise says it was very, very difficult, and she hit rock-bottom. This is a sad situation, he now has two baby boys and they have a Dad in jail for Christmas, but perhaps people can understand what she went through. She’s not sure that she feels vindicated. As the show goes to commercial break, there is a written and spoken disclaimer that Charlie Sheen has repeatedly denied Denise Richards’ allegations of abuse.

This is Denise Richard’s first time speaking out since the Christmas arrest, but they have got to a good place together. Oprah asks how good that place will be after this show and Denise laughs and says it depends how much they talk about- she says they’ve gotten through worse with a lot of work. Their daughters did not ask to be born into a hostile situation- she and Charlie started to see a mediator,- so to be able to have an early dinner together on New Year, is important for the kids who don’t deserve this stuff. Denise’s dad in the audience says it’s so frustrating- he respects his daughter for trying to makie it work but was angry at her for repeatedly going back. She kept going back because their oldest was 9 months and she was 6 months pregnant when she filed for divorce. She did it for the kids, she did not want this life for them. She was terrified for her own life. When she filed for divorce, they had had a very big argument, the next day he went to work and she packed a suitcase and took her 9 month old and went straight to an attorneys office. She was terrified and relieved that she had the strength to do it. When she heard he was remarrying, she had very much moved on- it was impossible to make her marriage work- she hopes he is different. Brooke is her daughters step-mom so she wants it to be a healthy relationship for everyone.

Oprah asks her how she felt when the tabloids called her a husband-stealer, what happened there? Richie was single when they were both going through their divorces. It started as a friendship, they leaned on each other and both had parents that were ill. Oprah asks if she knows the rule that the best friends husband is off limits rule, whatever the circumstances may be? Denise says that she was friends with Heather, but they weren’t best friends, and if they been friends then she would have never crosssed that line; Richie would have been off limits. The friendship was done, they weren’t friends anymore. She had mixed feelings, she was embarrassed and could feel the other mothers staring at her. Doing Mommy and Me and preschool runs was humiliating. She is now in a good place herself. Her 4 and 5 year old daughters are her pillars. Their favorite presents were their American Girl dolls- they were spoiled at Christmas. She did tell them about their Dad- a kid in kindergarten asked her 5 year old if her Daddy was still in jail. Oprah says theat kindergarten ain’t what it used to be. She asks if she is comfortable for Charlie to be with the girls, does she trust him? Denise says yes after a long pause. She says it’s up and down, a work in progress. Oprah asks if that means she didn’t trust him at some point; Denise says it was challenging. Many people said she was being manipulative and controlling, but she did what any parent in their right mind would have done. It is about the girls. Oprah asks if it’s his temper, what is it? Denise says it’s a combination of a lot of things, and Denise has always been about keeping the girls safe and healthy. Oprah says that Denise is not going to tell her what it is, as “a lot of things” is not an answer. Denise says she is starting to sweat. Oprah says Denise should only say what she feels comfortable with, but she wants Denise to know that it’s a lot isn’t an answer. Denise looks to her Dad and says everyone has read certain things, and that everyone must agree that some of those things are not appropriate for children. She can’t control Charlie or Brooke or what goes on in their home, but what she can control is the situation in her own home and keep her girls safe. Oprah leaves it at that because Denise is uncomfortable, but she says that all the things we read about prostitution, pornography and drugs are not appropriate for children. Oprah wishes Denise the best and thanks Denise for coming on the show. As the show goes to commercial break, a disclaimer says that Charlie Sheen denies that he threatened his wife Brooke with a knife, and that Brooke and Charlie want to work on their issues. He goes to trial in February.

It’s all too common; a well known, widely respected man is caught in a very public scandal, then steps forward and admits doing something wrong while his wife stands stoically by his side. Ted Haggard and his wife Gail were on the show last January after his shocking secret life was exposed – he was a powerhouse evangelist with 30 million followers, charismatic and influential, a rising star, until the sex scandal. On the show he said he wasn’t gay, but a heterosexual with homosexual attachments, as diagnosed by his first therapist. In 2006 a former male escort claimed a 3 year sexual relationship that included payment for sex and crystal meth. The details were sordid and humiliating. It was not an emotional relationship, it was strictly for sex. Ted initially denied everything, he said he never did drugs nor did he have a gay relationship, ever. Gail initially believed him but the story began to fall apart. He admitted that he called the other man for meth, for himself, but never used it. He eventually admitted to using drugs and sexual immorality. He said to Gail that he was toxic, so poisonous, that she should divorce him. Why did she stay? Gail is here and has written a new book called Why I Stayed.

Oprah read it last night and then this morning had an epiphany; she decided to approach this interview with no judgement; judge not lest ye be judged. Her conclusion is that Gail loves this man in a way that Oprah has never loved, Oprah is independent and has always made her own decisions and can’t therefore imagine ever being in the situation where someone could betray her and she would stay. It is unimaginable to her, yet Oprah can see that coming where Gail came from, Oprah can see how Gail could do it.

Gail is glad that Oprah doesn’t want to judge her- she would say that she is strong and independent and that these were her choices. She felt that the betrayal could lead to greater strength. On page 108 of her book, Gail asks if the fault lays with her- was she not enough, not attractive , not fun, not sexually satisfying enough? Gail says that most women would ask herself those questions when faced with infidelity , would ask if they failed somehow, would ask what’s wrong with me? Gail asked herself those questions then asked Ted those questions. He answered that this was his problem, not hers, and that she was enough. Oprah asks if this would be the same if the infidelities were with women? That for some women it’s easier if the man was gay. Gail says the dynamics were different, another woman would make her feel that she definitely wasn’t enough; it raises a whole different set of challenges. Oprah says another man means there’s nothing you can do about it, which can make it easier. Gail thinks that the whole woman thing would have been different challenges, but the same principles.

Oprah asks for clarification; knowing that her husband had had relationships with men in the past, why did Gail believe him when he denied a relationship? Gail says she really did believe it becasue she was too naive, there were hints. After Jonathan, their special needs son was born, Ted came to her and said that there had been an incident the previous year that he needed to share. It involved another man, it wasn’t a sexual relationship, but it was a somewhat sexual encounter that had happened when he was a graduate student in a bookstore in another city. He determined to get out of grad school and never go back, and went to see a counselor that day. He carried so much guilt that he didn’t reveal the incident for a year, a year and a half. Oprah asks if the admission of an encounter of any kind plants the seed that he is interested in men. Yes, it did. This happened over 25 years ago. Gail understands that we all have struggles and weaknesses in our life- but if she heard that now it would have been a huge sign for her. Then she was naive to the gravity of the situation. She wanted to deal with it and believed that he had dealt with it, and that was why she was so staggered when the situation came out.

Its been just over 3 years since Ted Haggard was brought down by a gay sex scandal. Ted joins us. Gail writes on page 67 of the day she decided to stay in the marriage. Ted reached out for her in bed, and her heart broke, and she began her journey of choosing to love. Ted, literally, cried when he read that. He realised that so many others would have withdrawn, justifiably so, and maybe just put him out. Oprah asks her what made her choose- it was the first night that he had confessed that parts of the allegations were true. Ted was already in bed, when she slowly went to bed. Oprah is outraged that he was in the bed, that he was allowed to be there, and that Gail went to join him. Ted says that’s why the book is so incredible, to see Gail making so many choices to keep there family together. Gail clarifies that she had a sense of betrayal and had a sense of revulsion, but she fell back on what mattered in her marriage, the things she believed about her husband. It was a secret, she hates secrets, it was very painful for her; she wanted to know the truth and know her husband. But she knows what kind of man he is, the good that he’s done and the wonderful parts of their marriage. and she’s not willing to let go of that. Sharing her epiphany, Oprah says to Ted that Gail really loves her. Ted says yes she really loves him, this woman is deeply infatuated with him, she loves him, which is an incredible thing. Gail says its more than infatuation, she really loves him. Ted says its incredible for a woman to love a man the way Gail loves him, he doesn’t deserve it, it’s a gift she has given him, and that he is so grateful.

Oprah asks Gail if she trusts him as much as she loves him? Gail says this is her answer: Rebuilding trust, she had the confidence that he was faithful to her, and that she could believe what he said. Ted felt that when the scandal happened it became his responsibility to do things so she could trust him. He took lie detector tests, he’s super accountable, he calls her constantly. He makes sure she has no doubt about where he is, so that Gail can deal with her fears reasonably. He makes it his resonsibility, he doesn’t expect blind trust. The rules he lives by are

1 He answers everything. He Tweets and Facebook’s his schedule for Gail and the public.

2. If he goes anywhere alone, he calls Gail when he gets there and when he leaves, and informs her of any adjustments of schedule

He says he stepped up and decided to do this, rather than have rules imposed by Gail, which would feel very different. He’ll mask it by asking if she wants anything from the grocery store as he’s leaving, so it doesn’t feel like checking in with his parole officer. He realises he also violated his children’s trust. If he travels and Gail can’t go, for whatever reason, something like the children or whatever, then he stays in the pastor’s home, not in a hotel. No one imposed that on him, he does it himself, it’s not a contract or anything like that. Oprah asks if he does it so that he can be trusted by them or if he doesn’t trust himself? Ted says that always when people have been in any behaviour like that, there is a chance of a problem. Ted trusts himself but step number 1 in the 12 step program encourages us to never think that we are immune. Oprah asks if the 12-step program got him through this process? He says it helped, and he’s still in counselling for other (non-sexual) issues, other things. The biggest thing that helped him was therapy, since that time he’s not had one compulsive thought or behaviour. Oprah asks if he feels he’s heterosexual and he says oh yeah, we have a lot of evidence. He laughs, Gail doesn’t. Oprah asks, and he clarifies that he no longer has any homosexual issues.

Oprah asks Gail what if he comes to her and says he’s slipped up? Gail says it’s a day she hopes never happens, but realistically she has to be prepared for that. She thinks her heart is not ready for that at this point, but she believes that the principles that got her through before could get her through again. Oprah asks if the marriage is stronger and better; Gail says absolutely. Gail loves him more now after they’ve walked through these difficulties together and she knows his weaknesses. Before she felt she couldn’t get close enough to him, there was a wall she couldn’t get past, and once they started this process, once the huge lights were shining on her husband they were able to get behind the wall and walk through that and that gave her more love for Ted. Gail’s book is out today, thank you Gail, thank you Ted.

WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY:

Despite denials, Charlie Sheen is most likely threatening and abusive

Most people would agree that drugs, pornography and prostitutes are not appropriate for children

If Gail Haggard’s husband had been unfaithful with women, there would have been different challenges, but the same principles of recovery.

To avoid all trust issues with oneself and others, stay in the pastor’s house rather than a hotel.

Therapy can work to reverse all homosexual impulses and feelings.

A VERY CONCISE SUMMARY:

Drugs and sexual immorality can lead to a stronger, better marriage with more love.

Date: January 25th, 2010
File Under: Celebrity, Entertainment, Family, Marriage, Relationships
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Episode 12: Rosie O’Donnell: Life After The Breakup and Her New Love

It’s been a long time since the Oprah Winfrey Show has heard from Rosie, come on out. They hug. Oprah admires her hair, and Rosie says she had to do the menopause cut at the back… she cut the underneath of her hair to avoid the thick-hair-sweat issue. They are both angry that no-one told them about menopause, about how it would be- Rosie hit menopause at 41, Oprah at 50. Suzanne Sommers called Rosie after seeing her on the show and advised her to take bio-identical hormones, and it changed her whole life. She doesn’t do everything Suzanne does, not 7 million pills and a shot in the vajayjay- Rosie takes a prescription cream. For a while she had a brillo moustache from the progesterone- she became The Lunch Lady, who didn’t remove it because she couldn’t see it. She feels alot better and younger now- Oprah interrupts to say that’s a topic for a whole new show.

It’s been 13 years since she was last on the show, but she did call Oprah once at 2 in the morning, crying after Columbine saying that they have to form a union to save the children of the world. Oprah was so good, telling her to breathe. Oprah realised that that tragedy affected different people in different ways. Rosie says when she first started her show she had a delusion of fame that the power of fame could stop bad things from happening- she felt she could get the other superhero media women together to change things, to make the world a better place. Rosie says that Oprah plays a central role in the movie of Rosie’s life, but Oprah doesn’t realise that she’s cast in it.

Oprah asks where Rosie has been the last couple of years, and Rosie says she’s been at home trying to figure out what to do with the second part of her life. Her mother died at age 40, so Rosie spent her whole life thinking she would only live to be 40. Her goal was to do everything she could by 40 then retire and wait to be told she was going to die. And yet every year her mammogram is clear. Rosie got divorced, although she and Kelly were in the first group to be married and it was annulled so they didn’t need a divorce as such. Rosie says that a lesbian divorce is a different paprdigm- the emotional connection remains. Every woman but one of Rosie’s past relationships is still in her life. They prioritise looking after the kids, they are the focus, that is what it is about. Oprah asks why they broke up. Rosie says that what they wanted and and needed at 30/ 35 and 40/ 45 changed. They did not grow apart, they both came back to being their authentic selves. When they met they were very wrapped up in their careers, and fame. For the last two years, she was at home painting and spending alot of time alone. She took her show as a job, with the aim of being at home with her children. She finds it impossible that fame doesn’t corrupt people, it is a toxic drug. Oprah agrees that it is a drug, but says that she hasn’t been drugged by it. Rosie didn’t realise until she was done with her show. She did alot of charity work, and her son asked why she didn’t stay home and take care of them instead of running out to compulsively raise money for charity. Oprah says that in the last 5 years, fame has become an obsession. Rosie agrees that as a nation we have become obsessed with fame, so that trivial news such as who she’s dating can be a headline on CNN.

Video footage shows Rosie’s guesthouse in New York state, where she has made a radio studio, The best part of her gig is that she can wear pajamas. She does a radio show with her kids. Back in the studio, Oprah says Rosie has a new radio show and an HBO documentary about families. Oprah asks what she has learned from her kids now, the oldest of whom is 14. Rosie said she has had to learn alot lately, especially with the idea of co-parenting, Her whole life she has wanted to be a mother, a full-time mother. They co-parent and spend equal time together with the kids. The kids are free-flowing, some are always here and there. Kelly lives close by, but not quite in the same town. One night when she was crying, her son said calm down mom, I’ll always be your son, no matter where I am. Rosie always wanted to be a family with a mom who stayed. She could do the things she could only dream of as a child- provide matching socks, clean underwear. She was raised with love, compassion and grace by a community of women with no blood relation- the neighbor women. Sadly her mother’s death was never talked about- Rosie never said out loud that her mother died until she was at college. Oprah is sure that affected her – Rosie says she’s almost annoying to her kids by asking what are you feeling? Should we talk? She wants her kids to remember that family is forever, change is inevitable and you can always survive it, that you can survive unexpected huge challenges. She hopes to teach them by doing it herself; that there is always something new in the future and you don’t now what that might be, but it has the potential for tremendous joy and to remember what was without the pain of what it is not now.

Despite the divorce, they do all the monumental events together- first day at school, the red carpet… The documentary is about family, and truth is what works for her and her family. She has been working for the last 2 years on “A Family is a Family, is a Family: A Rosie O’Donnell Celebration of Love”, an HBO documentary. They play an extract from the documentary, Rosie is talking with her daughter, about how a family is forever and family is love. Oprah asks why Rosie wanted to make that documentary? She says that she had been a rolemodel for the gay/ lesbian community, and she wanted to be honest in this documentary- gay families are just like other families, and divorce happens. It’s been the most painful experience of her adult life.

Rosie started in stand-up, then became most famous in her 6 year stint hosting the Rosie O’Donnell Show starting in 1996 , where she got 11 Emmy’s. She quit to spend more time with her family, then in 2006 returned to daytime television as a co-host on The View. Ratings soared and so did the controversy. It all came to a head with a heated political debate with co-host Elizabeth Hasselback. They’d had a friendship and it didn’t ring true. Rosie decided she’d had enough. Rosie asked Elizabeth how she felt about her comrades on Fox, where Hasselback is a commentator, calling Rosie un-American and saying she didn’t care about the troops. Elizabeth said she wasn’t going to defend her. Rosie said they were friends, and that Elizabeth had been to her house, and that what viewers saw were her hurt feelings and betrayal. Oprah asks if that’s why she didn’t come back- Rosie says that the producers had pre-prepared a split-screen. Rosie knew that and felt that she had been manipulated. She doesn’t feel that the best use of her talent is arguing and fighting. Living legend Barbara Walters was the person who’s show it was, it was not Rosie’s show. They play a clip of Barbara Walter’s on the Oprah Show, saying Rosie is loving and wonderful but had a moment of pure rage in the dressing room once that she didn’t want to talk about.

Oprah had read in Rosie’s Book, Celebrity Detox, about the incident. Rosie had made fun of Donald Trump’s hair. Oprah reads from the book saying that if Rosie stands up after a confrontation, it is because her rage is too big for her body. Rosie says she stood up, said a lot of terrible things and regretfully she says she scared Barbara Walters. Rosie regrets that moment because no one speaks to Barbara that way. They liken Walters to the queen; Oprah says she is the queen. Rosie was demanding an emotional connection.They think that maybe Rosie was projecting stuff onto her; Rosie says she didn’t think Barbara was her mother, but anyone in that age range, she has reverence for. Rosie was hurt because she felt Barbara should have come to her defense and she didn’t. Rosie tries to teach her children, her 12 year old, what are you feeling? She tries to show her children what their feelings are. If she had been braver, at that moment she would have just cried. Oprah says that is so interesting- when crying is so often perceived as the weak thing to do, why does Rosie say it would be braver? Because it would have been authentic, the true feeling . Rosie’s armour is to stand up and shout. She did go home and cried, alot. Kelly would say to her that she has to get her feelings under control. She is lucky that in her business she can express those emotions but sometimes she gets overwhelmed. Oprah asks how it healed her, the process. Rosie says you get to face yourself over and over, that you evolve and at some point the stories have to change. There are so many stories; by telling the same one over and over you define yourself in the past. What has healed Rosie is a willingness to step out of her history and into her present. Now she can live more authentically, she can speak without putting her guard up.

Rosie’s video blog has quite a following. That’s how she met Tracy- she wrote on the blog asking if she wanted to trade art. Rosie looked her up, she’s an artist and a single lesbian mom of 6 – 5 adopted from foster care and 1 she birthed with down syndrome. She’s a doula, surfer, gardener, recycler, works for gay foster care rights… Rosie wrote to her and asked if she was for real or a joke. She was the perfect match for Rosie’s wants. Her big heart appealed to Rosie. Rosie invited her to Miami, she didn’t even know if it was a date. They had never spoken, nor had she seen her. Tracy got out of the car and Rosie said zoinks, because she is absolutely gorgeous. They are moving to live together, they are going to blend the families. Rosie says her kids know her. When she told her oldest about Tracy, he said it sounds pretty perfect. Rosie is very happy, and it’s not that Kelly made her unhappy, it’s just that they wanted different things at different times.

Oprah asks her to reveal something that she’s never revealed. Rosie says that’s hard, that she tends to tell everything, almost too much- in her book she says she told how she used to self-injure as a child. That’s a tough thing to say, but a important one. She understands how you feel the need to make a physical pain to override the emotional pain. Right now, her secret, she is not wearing underpants.

Oprah asks if Rosie has healed some of the rage? Yes, but it took a long time and self acceptance and understanding that you can choose to see the glass as half empty or half full. Whenever she teaches that lesson to her kids, she relearns it for herself. Oprah advises every family to watch the family documentary on HBO on January 31st. Oprah and Rosie both have a radio series on Sirius FM; Rosie bought a Sirius radio or everyone in the audience. The audience go wild. Goodbye everybody.

WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY:

Menopausal hot-sweat discomfort for those with thick hair can be eased with the right haircut.

Fame corrupts. Fame is a toxic drug.

Family is forever, change is inevitable and you can always survive it, you can survive unexpected huge challenges

There is always something new in the future and you don’t know now what that might be, but it has the potential for tremendous joy, without the pain of the present.

Crying is not weak; it is brave, authentic and true.

A VERY QUICK SUMMARY:

What has healed Rosie is a willingness to step out of her history and into her present

Date: January 13th, 2010
File Under: Family, Marriage, Relationships

Episode 4: Marriage Around The World

Those of you who have been married a long time could write a book about it, yet the institution of marriage is changing around the world. Last year Oprah went to copenhagen, and was so impressed by relationships and life there. One of the people who showed Oprah around Copenhagen, Nanna, is now taking us to Cairo.

In the old part of Cairo, twenty times more populated than Copenhagen, we go to meet Heba, an interior designer. Nanna says that in Denmark it is very safe, extremely safe; what about here? Nanna is surprised to hear that Cairo is also extremely safe. Egypt has the highest divorce rate, one in three marriages end in divorce. Nanna lives with her boyfriend of 14 years, but they are unmarried. In Cairo this is unacceptable. Even after Heba’s divorce she would not live with a man without marriage. After divorce, women tend to move in with parents; Heba lives with her Mum. Nanna says that in Denmark every woman works, in Cairo almost all women stop working when they have kids.

Oprah says this is interesting. Nanna joins the conversation by Skype. What is Nanna’s impression of women in Egypt? Many women wear scarves but many of the younger have tight clothing, lots of make up and a scarf, which she found to be contradictory. Heba says to wear a scarf means you are more traditional, more pious, and to not wear a scarf means that you are more open minded. She sits next to Injy who is wearing a scarf. Oprah asks if there is tension between the scarf wearers and non-wearers. All present on Skype answer in the affirmative. Heba says that women are judged on their scarf, despite the tenets of religion which says don’t judge others. Injy disputes the idea that no scarf means you are more contemporary and more open-minded. She says scarf wearing and non-scarf wearing runs across the gamut.

Nanna asks three Egyptian women, Heba, Injy and Dr Heba, how much the scarf wearing is religion or culture. They say all religion. Injy clarifies that in wearing the scarf you are causing people to not lust after you, not to want you. Nanna tells them that in Denmark being found to be sexy is very desirable. Heba will not wear a scarf, she says her religion is more a spiritual sense. Dr Heba says this means she’s not religious. Heba responds that people say you can choose to wear the scarf or not, that it is the choice of the individual, but that you are judged at the same time.

Nanna goes to Dr Heba’s home, where she lives with husband and three daughters. Dr Heba introduces Helen who helps them out in the home- she says it’s not hard to have a maid in India because it costs such a tiny amount of money. Everyone loves yoghurt, Danes and Egyptians. There are lots of creams but no make-up in the bathroom. Nanna seems disturbed by all the colors in Dr Heba’s daughter’s room. Nanna says that in Denmark the whole room would be pretty much white.

Oprah thinks it is interesting that making ones self attractive to men is all we do here in the US. Injy says that attemping to create a lustfull reaction in the opposite sex is absolutely not a priority. She has prioritised her religion by choosing to wear the scarf two years ago. Nanna talks to some women about divorce- women have only been able to initiate divorce within the last ten years. A man can divorce simply by saying you are free to go, whereas the women have to go to court for a trial. In Denmark, Nanna says no one ever gets married before living together. Injy clarifies that this does mean that the whole country is living in sin by Egyptian standards.

Injy says that Egypt is a very sexually frustrated country. There is no sex before marriage, but men often have no money to marry, and consequently have no sex until they are in their thirties. Islam endorses a healthy sex life between married people and encourages foreplay and pleasure within that structure. Oprah asks why Heba is so quiet. Heba is very awkward, says she is more liberal and open minded. She says that a relationship culminates in marriage. Without necessarily living with your partner, it is long term. Oprah asks if people who are not strictly religious are having sex before marriage. Alot of people says Heba. (The audience laughs)

Divorce is on rise, Injy says that this is because men are no longer men, and women no longer women. There is serious confusion. Neither gender complies with the stereotype, yet each expects the other to live up to the stereotype. Oprah says Denmark has an extreme sense of equality, does Nanna feel the same in Egypt? Nanna says no, as illustrated by the ability for a man to divorce his wife by text message, while women need to go to trial. She declares that this is unfair in her opinion.

Do the Egyptian women feel repressed? Heba does feel repressed as a woman to a certain extent. There are still many things that she can’t do. Injy doesn’t feel repressed but is aware that she is not representative of the population. Oprah has never been to Egypt, but will go as soon as she can. Not only is Egypt promoted by Obama as a country to visit, but now she alos knows two people who live there. Oprah will go to Egypt soon, thanks to everyone.

Oprah interviews two indignant Palestininians in the audience, speaking on behalf of Muslims. They say that men can’t divorce by text message. A man must actually say it 3 times. Oprah clarifies that the bottom line is that women must go to court for a divorce, while men jsut speak their desire.

Eat, Pray, Love author Elizabeth Gilbert wrote about recovering from divorce and learning to love again. The author is featured in Oprah Magazine this month. Oprah comments on the difference between how she looks in the morning versus how she is portrayed on the cover of the magazine.

Elizabeth Gilbert says we have this sweet and lovely idea that traditional marriage is a union between one man and one women. This is not the case- marriage was usually an agreement between one man and several women, for economic or family-building reasons. She says the only thing that is consistent about the history of marriage is the element of change. Usually for many women, the idea of the golden age of marriage now means nothing. In 1967 interr-racial marriage made legal, the same arguments being made before that ruling apply now for gay marriage. Now there is the idea of the wifeless marriage- many people want to be married without becoming, or having, the traditional idea of the wife.

100,000 women become mail order brides. Ukraine, which is the size of Texas, is known for beautiful women, most of whom work in low-paid jobs, Women see marriage as a way out. Lera became a mail order bride to be able to move to US. It was an arrangement for a visa and green card; the husband is simply an extra. She says she had low standards and was only really after conversation. She did however want to be liked for her self so her online picture was not a tight short red dress image, like the majority of the Ukrainian pictures.

Steve, a man in his 50’s was the third man to reply to her email. They got to know each other over the internet. Steve came to visit in Kiev, Steve was already in love with her. They got married 2 days after she arrived in the US six years ago. Lera takes us back to show the life she left behind in Ukraine; the house where she grew up, now shared by mother and brother. Her parents are doctors which is a government profession in Ukraine, and thus very badly paid. Growing up, there were lots of sacrifices. They would eat bread, cheese and white fish. Lera’s mother never knew of anyone who got married in the way Lera did, and she didn’t think it would end well. We see an internet cafe- where Lera says everyone is secretly online looking for a husband. Age 17,18 or 19 is considered to be marital age. Lera’s friend got married at 18, she is now on second marriage at 26. She looked for a man who could allow her to stay home with her 8 year old. Lera’s unmarried brother wants his hypothetical wife to stay home, he doesn’t want her to work. Lera can’t wait for Ukraine to catch up with her ideas.

Lera and Steve are in the studio; they say there marriage is very happy, unexpectedly so. This was a surprise; she was looking for a visa and he was looking for someone to talk to in the lonely post-9/11 weeks in Manhattan. Lera admired the fact that Steve could make things happen and could take her places. There was an element of courtship, Steve legitimately dated her for many months, he came to Kiev. Oprah asks if it would be fair to say that Lera was just using him as a ticket out of Ukraine. Pretty Much, says Lera.

Oprah asks if this is now a traditional marriage? Lera says neither of them are traditional people. Steve is a music producer, with an untraditional life. He has been married before. He says that after 9/11 people had a different take on relationships and life. Oprah says hmm. Lera’s family likes him now, likes that he takes care of her. Lera wanted and liked the ability to live in NYC. Oprah was so impressed by Danish women and their lack of needing someone to take care of them; their strong independence. Lera says that in Ukraine, the bargaining power of women is very very little. By 20, they are considered old, by 25 some doctors tell you not to have children.

Thank God we live in the USA proclaims Oprah, who then goes on to say that it is interesting because it shows that all arrangements can work.

For 95% of Indian couples, first comes marriage then the possibility of love. We know go to Mumbai which has one of the fastest growing global economies. Where old meets new, we meet 31 year old Shalin and 27 year old Sneha. They met over dinner with both of the families, which was very, very awkward. Too many relatives perhaps? He went back to see her a week later and spent the day with her. He was sure there was a spark, so he asked her if he should proceed to ask his parents to ask her parents to go forward with the marriage. 5 months later they shared their first kiss at their wedding ceremony. Shalin says he tells his friends that the first 24 hours of marriage are the most special. This is when you begin figuring out what the other wants and likes, if they like tea or coffee. Shalin smokes, Sneha didn’t know. She slept on the same side of bed that he wanted to sleep in. Arranged marriages aren’t meant to force you together with someone, rather you slowly grow into them.

Oprah says that more than half of the worlds marriages are arranged, like 60%. Shalin and Sneha join us by Skype. He says the marriage is arranged by love. The family finds you someone wth whom you are compatible. The relationship grows into compatability and love. Oprah asks if the idea is that you hope to love one day? Yes, says Sneha, infatuation is what happens overnight; love takes longer. Oprah asks if they now love each other, after 5 1/2 years. Yes is the answer.

Oprah says that is fascinating to look at how we are all alike and yet different. With so many arranged marriages in the world, there must be something in it. Thanks everyone, the conversation continues straight after the show at the brand new website Oprah.com.

WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY:

Everyone loves yoghurt, both Danes and Egyptians

Divorce is on the rise because men are no longer men and women are no longer women

The history of marriage is not what we believe it to be

Mail order brides can lead to lasting love

Arranged marriages are very popular and often successful

A VERY QUICK SUMMARY:

All arrangements can work out, we are all different. Thank God we live in the USA.