Episode 15: Jay Leno: The Tonight Show Fiasco
Oprah asks Jay to go back 5 years, to when Jay was asked to leave the Tonight Show. He was in his office, when a network executive came and asked him to leave in 5 years to make way for Conan, the upcoming star. There had been no discussion of passing over the show. As the #1 rated show, Jay did not think that he would be moved on. It broke Jay’s heart- this was the job that he’d always wanted and it was the only job that mattered to him. NBC wanted to announce it immediately- Jay Leno wanted the announcement to wait until they dropped to #2 at least. Conan’s contract was up and NBC didn’t want to loose him, so they wanted to move Jay on. Jay was devastated, the show was a tremendous success. Oprah asks what he planned to do in 2009? He says he told a white lie and said he’d retire, but he assumed that something else would turn up. The fly in the ointment was that they were #1 right until the day he went off the air. NBC made him leave 7 months before the contract was up so that he could not go elsewhere. He also had 175 people who worked for him. The best way to keep things smooth was the 10pm prime time idea, which NBC came up with in fall 2008- they had all the graphs and charts. Jay asked to keep his own staff, and NBC agreed. His option was to move to prime-time rather than move to another network. He knows his way around NBC and moving wasn’t appealing.
He feels messed around by NBC executives but he did it because it was an interesting challenge. Paradise is the ability to know you’re in it before you’re cast out of it- Jay feels that in both in his work and his marriage. They had a lot of great staff, it was a wonderful experience. Saying goodbye on the last night was tough. It was fun to watch his staff who all started out young and single, get married and have kids and that’s why they brought out the 65 kids on the stage. This was a family, a real one.
Last Friday night Conan left the Tonight Show after 7 short months and Jay Leno is going back to his old job. Americans are taking this seriously. Some are calling Jay selfish, and some are saying Conan can’t cut it. Jay thought Conan could do the show well, they were friends, this is a network decision. Only 6 or so people know how this feels, so you can only talk to them about it. Jay wished him well. Going to the prime time show did sort of make up for losing the Tonight Show, although it was unchartered territory. Late night he’d go up against Dave every night- if Oprah was on he knew that Dave would get the ratings, but otherwise Jay would get the viewers. But to book against the CSI evil twin episode, was very hard. Other networks wanted them to fail so kept their stars away . It made it more difficult certainly. After his first night he was heralded as the future of television, yet 4 months later he was called TV’s biggest bomb. Jay thinks the show failed beause it was a late night talk show on at 10 o’clock. His ego wasn’t bruised but he felt bad for everyone on the show and for the affiliates. The odd thing was it made money for the network, but not the affiliates. Many people say that Jay being on prime time 5 nights a week took away jobs from millions. He hadn’t realised that until he was on the air. Jay says he was given enough time to build an audience. It is a TV show that got cancelled, and Jay is surprised that there is so much attention. He found it ludicrous that he’s been in the newspapers almost daily for the last 6 months about this, not an actual scandal. Oprah finds it fascinating that America has taken sides in this and alot of people are not on Leno’s side. They think he has been selfish and taken the job from Conan. Jay says it all comes down to numbers. This is the perfect storm of bad things happening. Taking two hit shows and moving them both, what were the chances of them both doing badly? People think Leno pulled strings to make this happen. Jay’s show ratings were down 14% and Conan’s were down 49%. Leno wasn’t allowed out of his contract, despite being fired twice he was considered an asset. This time he was fired for poor ratings which Leno finds acceptable. They fired him and offered him half an hour and Conan on later for an hour. He said ok to 11.30-12.00. NBC were 75% sure Conan would agree. Oprah asks if he wanted to call Conan- Jay says that it wasn’t his place to call Conan. Next thing you know Conan’s article was in the paper, and that was that. Conan said he did not want to take the hour at 12.05. But then it got ugly.
Leno has made a living making jokes of other people during their hard times. However, he feels he was sucker-punched by Jimmy Kimmel- he didn’t know Jimmy was going to make jokes about Leno only having cars and $800 million, while Conan and Jimmy have kids. He hasn’t yet called Conan, he may when things calm down. He hasn’t been hurt by the jokes, it’s what they do. Like a fighter saying punches hurt- you can’t complain because it’s what you do. It all comes down to your conscience, a guilty conscience makes you feel bad and he never felt that. Oprah asks if he ever at any time considered that he was taking away Conan’s dream by going back? No, because this was an affiliate decision, this was the first time in 60 years that the Tonight Show would lose money. It was a matter of dollars and sense. If the numbers had been there it wouldn’t have been an issue. And they only asked him to come back when Conan turned back moving the show back an hour. Oprah asked if no part of him thought enough already, I’ve already done it? Leno says he and Oprah will go down together, they will both work forever. She is making her decision that the Oprah Winfrey Show is done after 25 years. Leno says he believes that she believes it. She asks who he is without a television show that he’s done for 17 years. He says he lives on the money he makes as a stand-up comedian. He considers himself a stand up comedian because TV is so volatile that you never know if you have a job. His TV money he banks and he has a small foundation.
Do you feel any personal responsibility for Conan’s disappointment? No it had nothing to do with Leno. There’s always someone waiting in the wings. He thinks very much about rebuilding his audience at the Tonight Show, he’ll do it by doing the work and servicing the audience. If a joke works all over the US, then it will work on TV. There is a fine balance. Oprah asks if they lost that balance. Even his audience was a little shocked when he made a crack at Letterman’s infidelity. Oprah thought it was beneath him. He thought one cheap shot deserves another. He does feel portrayed as the bad guy, which he feels is unfair. He says he is being likened to Roman Polanski, which is unfair. He hopes Conan gets a job elsewhere and the best man wins. Does his gut ever say that he should say no to the offers of going back? No. Although when he wanted to be out of his contract he would have taken his show elsewhere. He is looking forward to starting again on March 1st and rebuilding his audience. He does not feel responsible for Conan’s happiness. Anything that NBC did would have been better than this, from 2004 onwards this was a huge mess. Oprah asked what he expected? To cut the prime time show down to 2 or 3 nights a week would have been a solution. The Jay Leno Show took the focus of the stories about ratings; when they got cancelled the Tonight Show’s Ratings were under the radar.
They play Conan’s leaving speech saying that amazing things happen if you work hard and you’re kind and not cynical. Jay watched it and thinks he’s a good guy and a good comedian. Going back may be humbling, there is alot of work to be done,some damage control, and he should not be bitter or angry. Oprah asks if Leno was embarrassed – yes, it’s hugely embarrassing. How does his broken heart show itself to him? Does he go for a ride in one of his cars? He always thought he was doing the right thing, and yet so many people are upset,. Who wouldn’t have done what he did? Maybe he’s not a good guy, he thinks he’s a good guy. He asked himself daily if he was being selfish, and his answer is he doesn’t think so. He thinks celebrities will come on his show, why would they refuse? Oprah says they are taking sides. He will work hard and try to be #1 again, it is like a marathon when you do the best you can. The experience has changed him becasue he can understand celebrities having rugh times.
Oprah wanted to do the interview because she thinks people don’t understand the way TV works. She could understand people calling Leno selfish if Leno owned the show, but he couldn’t steal the show because it wasn’t his to steal. He doesn’t want to own the show like he doesn’t want to be a landlord. He likes to be well-paid employee.
80,000 viewers replied to the Oprah.com Jay vs Conan show poll, and 96% are on Conan’s side and 94% thought Jay shouldn’t go back to the Tonight Show. Oprah is surprised that so many people feel this way, that Jay stole Conan’s dream. Being retired seemed selfish to Jay- 175 people at work would all have to fend for themselves. As a team effort, as long as he’s working, they are working. Selfish, maybe, but the minute you can’t do the job, you get the tap on the shoulder to leave. He felt bad for Conan but he didn’t feel he was the reason, the reasons were the ratings. He has regrets but doesn’t know what he would do differently. Oprah says he could have walked away. Jay says that’s the ego decision, to leave everyone hanging. Oprah asks that he could have taken two years of money for him and his staff like Conan did. Jay says he could have done that, but he made a different decision. He would love to have Conan on his show, Conan will hopefully get a job on Fox or something and they’ll all compete again.
Back in the studio, Oprah has a cold and is sucking on a cough drop. Oprah thanks Jay. The Oprah show reached out but Conan’s people said it wasn’t the time for him to be on the Oprah Show. They will redo the poll on Oprah.com, and please take the no-phone pledge when you are online.
WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY:
Paradise is the ability to know you’re in it before you’re cast out of it
It is a TV show that got cancelled, and even Jay Leno is surprised that there has been so much attention paid to the matter.
Ultimately television is all about the ratings.
Jay Leno does not feel responsible for taking away Conan O’Brien’s dream
Maybe Leno is not a good guy, but he thinks he’s a good guy.
A VERY QUICK SUMMARY:
Jay Leno does not feel responsible for Conan’s disappointment; TV is ultimately all about the ratings