Episode 22: Oprah & A No Holds Barred Conversation With Child Molesters
- 90% of Child molesters are people that you know- family friends, uncles, brothers, fathers, neighbors
- Child molesters seek out and sediuce vulnerable needy kids and gain their trust- trust is integral to the abuse
- Child molesters are so conniving and manipulative that the molestation feels good, which confuses the child
What should you be looking for? This is a group session with 4 Child Molesters, their group therapist and Oprah. She says she comes attempting not to judge, so that their words will not be in vain.
Lee molested 3 kids when he was age 10-12, when he was 14 he raped his girlfriend who was also 14, when he was 65 he molested a 5 year old who called him grandpa. He was like a grandpa to the kid, he fondled her, touched her vagina and buttocks, orally raped her and had her touch his penis. The mother walked in and discovered the kid pulling up her sweatpants- the child denied everything until the next day.
Darren began fantasising about orally copulating his 12 year old daughter, which grew into an obsession. He raped 14 year olds when he was in his 20’s which he was never charged for. When his daughter was 12 he was divorced and had custody of his daughter, he touched her when she was sleeping, it was impulsive, she was laying in an arousing position and he didn’t think she’d notice. The first time it woke her and she told her mom, Darren told the mom that the daughter was lying to get to back home to mom. He wasn’t worried about calling his daughter a liar, he wanted to protect himself. They shared a room, not the same bed. She wasn’t always asleep, he was molesting her- he’d feel between her legs before work to get a quick fix and head on his way. Both were clothed, he’d masturbate later, he’d use images of orally copulating her. He did that over her clothes on 3 occasions. It was an adrenaline turn on for him, it was something real fast without her knowing. Except that she did know. He asked her if he could orally copulating her, she said no. She did ask him to stop at other times, and he said ok but he continued.
Many people know Oprah was raped at nine and molested from 9-14 and because of that she wanted to sit down with child molesters to find out the why and how of their methodically carried out crimes. David had a family member 3 years younger than him growing up and he molested her from age 8 (she was 5) up to age 20. He got the idea one morning after she’d stayed the night and she didnt have underwear on. He wanted to see her vagina, she idolised him and would do anything he asked. He was manipulating that from he start. It progressed to him touching her on her vagina and chest and orally copulating her one time. He got her to orally copulate him at around age 12. One of his friends gave him a condom for a joke when he was 14, and she was 11; he used it to rape her. She never consented to any of this, she went along with it to get his attention. She was as neglected as he was at home and he exploited that; he’d withold his attention to molest her. Sometimes she’d seek out the abuse to simply get attention. This went on till she was 17 and she got a boyfriend and told him. When he was about 14, he was molesting her in her bed when her mother walked in- he said he was giving her a goodnight snuggie. He mostly denied what had happened, he told himself that she wanted it and that it was a relationship and that her parents had forced her to admit to it and she didn’t want bad things to happen to him. While he was in trouble, he was witholding his attention from her so she was even more primed for the molestation when it re-started which is how he came to rape her the first time. Oprah asks if they see adifference between molestation and rape. They say no, the methodology has the same emotional damage. Oprah says as a child you have no name for it so there is little difference between a hand, object, or penis. David saw rape as the last bastion of their relationship.
Robert was 18 and she was 12, he was walking home with friends, they started messing around kissing, then got her to take of her clothes and raped her. The therapist interjects to say that 90% of abusers know their victims. Oprah asks why they agreed to the interview- Lee says to tell parents what to look out for- if an adult spends more time with kids at a party than with the adults, then that is a red flag. Lee took advantage of the trust of a 5 year old. He thought she liked it but found out later that it hurt her. Oprah says as someone who’s been abused, that if an abuser is doing a job well, it will feel good. Lee needed the attention himself. Darren wants to prevent another father from molesting his daughter If he can save one child, he would say to that father harboring fantasies; if you are having fantasies, go get help, it doesn’t go away. Deep seated issues need to be treated as they won’t go away by themselves. David wants to impress that people be better parents- his victim was neglected, children are always looking for love. Oprah says she looked up to her uncle and cousin and family friend and was manipulated but didnt know and blamed herself. David can see the effects he’s had on his victim’s life. Oprah stresses that it’s about grooming and seducing your target, the targets are chosen, they are often needy and neglected. No one is choosing a child with confidence and self esteem, one whom they perceive will tell. David saw anger and retaliation against her parents in his victim, and he had trust from her parents. He couldn’t victimize without trust. The therapist thinks it is because of the trust that the victims don’t tell or scream. Oprah says if they are good, its not pain they are causing, they are trying to give their victims pleasure.
Child molesters charm their victims into trusting them, and many of them do not believe that they are doing harm, because they are not causing pain. Their goal is to give sexual pleasure to a child so that pleasure is reciprocated. Oprah was 42 before she realised that she’d been groomed. Darren talks of backrubs and foot rubs to prepare the child for the touch so that he could touch chest or genitals. David agrees, he would listen to her, then have his hand on her shoulder, then cuddle on the couch. Its like a couple on a first date. Darren knew it was wrong but justified it as a special thing between them. They all basically believed that they were bringing the child physical pleasure. Oprah asks Lee if he thought at the time that he was a disgusting old man, yes but it was too late to stop. He thought she enjoyed it so he’d fondle her to make her happy. None of them thought that they were causing harm at the time.
Oprah says that if you have been abused and are holding on to the feeling that its your fault because it felt ok, then that is exactly what they want you to think, so that you won’t tell; it is not your fault. Oprah says that sexual abuse changes who you are. David says it happened 2-3 times a week. The first time he gave her an orgasm by orally coupluating her he thought he was the king of the world. He had fantasies that they could run away together and live as a married couple. He has spent alot of time thinking of the consequences of his actions- he killed what she could have been, he murdered a person. Just because she’s alive and getting her life back doesn’t change what he did. A few years ago she contacted him through her therapist and said she forgave him. David has a real problem with that as he finds what he did unforgivable. Oprah says that him saying he killed who his victim could have been is one of the most powerful things that she’s ever heard anyone say; it is the absolute truth. When a child is abused, it changes who they are, it kills their spirit.
Oprah asks what they said to keep their victims quiet? Lee says that the 5 year old loved him and knew he’d get in trouble- he once told her that if her daddy found out he’d beat him up and she wouldn’t be able to see him again. That was a big thing, that was enough. Darren said he’d be taken away- if his victim told, she’d never see him again. Robert told his victims that he loved them.
Oprah asks what they most want parents to know. Lee says be on the alert , dont mistrust everybody but at least open your eyes and look around at what is happening. He feels that an alert person would have seen the signs with him- the cuddles, lap-sitting the attention. But he’d have lied about it if asked and would say he just loves children. Darren says pay attention to kids cues and listen to your kids. If they say that someone touches them, listen, they dont make this up. They agree that the victim could potentially stop them by saying no. Robert says he may have been stopped by his victim saying no, in some not all of his crimes, David may have stopped if she’d said no and reported him. Lee feels he would have stopped if the 5 year old had said no grandpa. He loved her so much he would have stopped. Darren’s daughter turned him in, and he’s very proud of her for that, she has every right to protect herself and he is glad she exercised that right.
Oprah says listen to your child’s cues and if you think something is going on and something seems weird, then it probably is. That is instinct, trust it. If you are a child, tell someone, and if they don’t believe you tell someone else and keep telling people until someone believes you. Child molesters do not want you to tell. Oprah asks the therapist if Child molestation is misunderstood, as it is portrayed in the press as torture an pain. The therapist agrees; the unspoken shame is that for millions at the time it was not a horrific, horrible experience,- you would tell if it caused you great pain.
Lee feels he is being cured, he’s not there yet. He doesn’t trust himself around children. Darren says it is abit like being an alcoholic, but he can’t say he wont do it again. He may yet go back to the dark place. Robert says he will not offend again, he has tools to help him with his triggers and problems, he’s happy. Oprah asks if he would be a danger to a group of gorgeous 14 year old girls; he says no. David says he probably wont offend again, therapy has helped him see he will always be damaged but he can work on it and be a better person.
Oprah thanks them for being so candid and open, and thanks to their therapist for her support, The whole 2 hour interview will be up on Oprah.com. A week today we are talking to mothers and babysitters who molest. Thank you for watching and remember to make your car a no phone zone.
WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY
90% of Child Molesters are people that you know- family friends, uncles, brothers, fathers, neighbors.
Child Molesters seek out and seduce vulnerable needy kids and gain their trust.
Trust is integral to the abuse.
Child molestation is about grooming and seducing a target. The targets are chosen, they are often needy and neglected.
Listen to your child’s cues and if you think something is going on and something seems weird, then it probably is.
A VERY QUICK SUMMARY:
Trust your instincts. When a child is abused, it changes who they are, it kills their spirit.