Episode 29: Serial Killer John Wayne Gacy’s Sister & Mass Murderer Jim Jones’ Son Speak Out
In 1977, with Jonestown almost complete, Jones ordered his followers to Guyana, and nearly 1000 people dropped everything and moved with him to where they believe heaven on earth awaited them. The followers thought it loooked like freedom. The community was well planned with a school, clinic and communal kitchen. But as Jonestown flourished, their leader grew increasingly bizarre. There was a speaker system that only Jones spoke on. He would tape himself and play it over and over, 24 hours a day. In the summer of 1978, it was noticed that Jones was getting sicker. It was widely rumored that he was abusing drugs. His tirades were getting more and more frantic and he seemed to be getting more insane. Back in the States, former church members began complaining that Jones was keeping their loved ones against their will. Californian congressman, Leo Ryan flew to Jonestown with a handful of reporters. The People’s Temple welcomed them to the party. But later that evening a Jonestown resident passed a note to a reporter saying that he was being held against his will. The next morning, more and more defectors came forward. Though Jones appeared calm in front of the cameras, behind the scenes he had ordered his avenging angels, as he called them, to take action. They ambushed the Congressman and his crew at the airstrip. Congressman Ryan and four others were killed in a shootout. Back at Jonestown, Jones called an emergency meeting where he announced that the Congressman was dead. He stated that as they wouldn’t live in peace, they should die in peace. Jones presented to his followers a large metal vat filled with a cyanide-laced beverage. First mothers were ordered to give it to their children and then drink it themselves. ”Die with respect, Die with a degree of dignity” Jones urged them. “Mother please, put down your life with your child”. Tim Carter is one of only 7 who survived the mass suicide. He looked to his right and saw his wife with their son in her arms and poison being injected into his mouth, and his son was dead, and he was frothing at the mouth. His wife died in his arms, and their son was in her arms. All Tim could say was I love you, over and over. Jim Jones Jr lost his wife, his unborn child and his mother and father.
Oprah says it still seems unbelievable that 909 people including nearly 300 children died that day, and a further 5 at the airstrip. Jim Jones Jr was not there that day, he is here in the studio today. Jones preached to his followers about dying a peaceful and dignified death. This is what a death by Potassium Cyanide does to the body. The deadly poison attacks the nervous system, starving the body of oxygen. Unable to breathe, victims die of suffocation, eventually their organs shutdown. Eye-witnesses at Jonestown reported seeing the poisoned people going into violent convulsions, their faces twisted and foam coming out of their mouths. It took about 5 minutes to die their agonizing deaths.
They came to take newborn babies out of their mother’s arms. Jones said “Bring the vat, the vat, the vat, lay it here so that the adults may begin”. They were slaughtered says Tim. There was nothing dignified, it was senseless waste and death. Rev Jim Jones, his wife, 2 of their children and 5 of their grandchildren died that day. 3 of their sons were spared. Jim Jones Jr and his two brothers were in Georgetown, 150 miles away with the basketball team when he got his father’s call. His father spoke of visiting Ms Frazier, which was code for suicide. Jim couldn’t believe what Jones planed to do, he asked if there was another way. His father told them to find knives or piano wire or whatever they could to commit suicide. When Jim received those instructions he didn’t kill himself, he didn’t believe and couldnt understand what was happening. He didn’t know if his family would drink the Kool-Aid. At the time he was 18. They went to the US embassy to find what was going on, they hoped they could stop it. In Jonestown prior to this, the community had practiced drills of suicide- which were tests of loyalty where people would pledge their allegiance to the cause. The cause was the non-isms; non-racism, non-sexism, non ageism. The class system coming out of the 70’s of haves and have nots was opposite to the utopian society of the Pople’s Temple. People believed that they would create a whole new world. They had the whole gamut of intelligence, and 70% African Americans. Jim was adopted by Jones when he was 10 weeks old. The story goes that he was the first African American kid to be adopted by a caucasian family. Jones was his father, and Jim loved him. He took pride in his father. Oprah asks was it difficult being the first black kid in a white family? He says no, he didn’t know. There were Koreans in the family and Jim Jr just thought that he had a better tan. He had two Korean siblings, and Homemade the blond blue eyed natural son. There was no race at the church, they were a rainbow family.
Even Jones’ voice was becoming slurred towards the end. During the last year he was becoming detached and crazy. Jim Jr was probably the last to see it- he didnt want to see it. Jones had multiple affairs and mistresses which happened for years prior to Jonestown. As a child they’d go on holiday for a week with their father and a mistress, and then their mother would join them for the second week. His mother was aware. Jim Jr was told that the women needed his father. He was resentful, but felt that he had to do it for the people to build the new world. He says that he drank the Kool-Aid before; he was indoctrinated into believing, that was his bubble. Oprah asks why would 900 people agree to do that? Jim Jr cant answer but he can try and explain the mindset. The 900 people were told that the Congressman had been shot. They were told that their community would be invaded and their children would be taken away. Jones’ words were that they needed to lay down their lives in protest. He had the children ingest the cyanide first, very manipulatively. Jim Jr says he has 3 boys and if he watched them die, why would he want to live? Jones created that vacuum. When you see the syringes and needles, he doesn’t think everyone lined up willingly. Oprah clarifies that people were made to do it against their will, and that guards were there to shoot people if they didn’t comply. Jim Jr’s brother, sister, mother , father, wife and unborn child all died. For Jim Jr there was no reason to live. He came back to the States and went by James Jones for many years. 15 years later he worked his way up to be the Director of a Cardio Pulmonary Department in a hospital. Because of the acronyms behind his name, they shortened his name to Jim. As he walked up to his great new job he was faced with the name Jim Jones and he realised that Jim Jones Jr is who he is. He faced up to the fact that he was part of a community trying to build a brave new world. They tried and failed, but he can’t hide from who he is. He doesn’t hate his father, he has forgiven him. Was Jones mentally ill or on drugs? Oprah asks. The mental illness was exacerbated by the drug abuse and his power which was never challenged. Jones spiraled out of control, self destructed and took 900 people with him.
In 1998, Jim Jr went back to Jonestown and took his sons with him, he wanted to give them the foundation of what kind of world they were trying to create. When he got to Jonestown, looking for answers to his questions the only thing he could find was the tin vat that the KoolAid was stored in. The grass had grown over it. At that point he realised that he couldn’t have answers but he had to figure out how to get on with his life from that point. Oprah asks if he would have drunk the Kool-Aid that day, he can’t say he wouldn’t have if his wife and family had all taken it. The 900 people had already been brainwashed, practicing suicide raids, they were already indoctrinated. To kill the children first was a strategy. Oprah says again, it is incomprehensible that any mother would feed their child cyanide.
Jim Jr says that basketball saved his life twice. 15-18 years after Jonestown he hit rock bottom and found solace in alcohol and drugs. He became emotionally unavailable to his wife and children to the stage where his wife was willing to leave him and take the kids. To save his family he got clean and found something that his son gave him as a gift that they could connect upon, basketball. He’d denied himself basketball because of guilt, and that saved him. When people says sports save their life, Jim Jr says it saved his life twice. Jim’s oldest son Rob is making a name for himself on the basketball court. For years Jim Jr was defined as the son of Jim Jones. Now he’s known as the father of his son Rob, with great pride and honor. Oprah says that’s really great.
Jim Jr shared many stories with his kids about their grandfather; trips they went on, playing ball. Some of his sons friends came up to Rob and said they just learned about his grandfather in history class. And Rob said, yeah, that was my Grandfather. To Rob it’s just stories. Oprah says she finds it hard to believe that there is no guilt, shame and resentent connected to… that it would be easy to dismiss the first 17 years of his life, banish it and move on. Jim Jr says he wanted to embrace it for both himself and his children. Oprah asks why. He embraces it because then he doesn’t have to hide from it. Oprah says that is so good and that we can learn alot from him. He says that there is no stigma for his children. Oprah says that everyone has something in their past that they are embarrassed by, or ashamed of, something that a family member has done. Jim Jr is proof that you don’t have to let the past be a burden. He says it is by the Grace of God and a great wife. Oprah says listen to your wife, Jim Jr laughs. Thank you Jim and to CBS for some of the footage they used to tell this story.
John Wayne Gacy’s sister is not recognised by her background- she had to bury that part of her life. She likes to talk about the brother that she knew, who was kind and loving and a great loving uncle to her children who they dearly loved and dearly remember. Karen’s brother was one of the most horrific serial killers of all time. Anyone under 35 may not remember the grizzly story before his arrest in 1978. He was one of the carziest and scariest human beings because he functioned in society. At 25 years old, John Wayne Gacy was a family man with a wife and 2 children. He ran a successful business and was well respected. One afternoon he invited a 15 year old boy to his home and molested him. In 1968 he was arrested and convicted of sodomy. He received 10 years, the maximum sentence, at the State Penitentiary. His wife divorced him and took the children who he never saw again. While in prison, he was a model prisoner, he was the head cook and sang in the choir. After 18 months he was released on good behaviour. Returning to his home town of Chicago, determined to rebuild his life, he started a contracting business. He remarried and volunteered at charitable events as Pogo the Clown. His family believed that when his second marriage failed, something in him snapped. He began to abduct young men and boys, raping and murdering them. Police never suspected anything until 1978 when he was reported as the last person seen with a young boy. Investigators were shocked when he admitted to throwing five bodies in the river and he drew a map showing where more than 2 dozen bodies were buried in a crawl space beneath his home and garage. He was found guilty of murdering 33 young men and boys, he received the death penalty and died by lethal injection in 1994.
Gacy’s sister Karen shows her favorite photo of them together as children with their older sister Joanne. John and her were best friends and did everything together. He liked gardening, baking and cooking, not stereotypical male activities of the time. It bothered their father who would bring it up when he drank. Her father would call John a sissy, and he was a mean drunk. John felt that he never lived up to his father’s expectations which went all the way up until he married and had a son and daughter. He was arrested about 18 months later and was accused of sodomy with a minor- he always insisted that he was innocent and he was framed. Karen believed him and says that she has often wondered if they hadn’t believed him so easily that his life may have turned out differently.
In 1978 the remains of at least 27 bodies were found under Gacy’s house. Karen says that there was always a musty smell at the house, When he was arrested, she couldn’t believe that he was capable of killing all the people. An attorney called to tell her, she spoke to John and he admitted that he did it. Neither she nor her husband could believe it. He wasn’t the person that they knew, who was good and kind and loving. Gacy recanted his confession and maintained that he was innocent until his execution, but he did tell Karen initially that he did it. In jail she asked him how he didn’t know that the bodies were under their mothers house. He said he didn’t kill all of them but maybe one or two. She told him that if he killed one, he killed them all; you can’t kill one and not be guilty. She was so angry at what he had done to their family and children. She could have socked him because she didn’t know that about him.
Oprah asks if he killed things as a boy, like animals, or other traits of serial killers? Karen says no, nothing like that, he was good to their dogs, there were no signs of anything. Oprah asks if he was trying to hide his homosexuality or bisexuality? In Iowa, Karen and her husband and their oldest daughter visited him and they went to a function together. Gacy said don’t be upset if they don’t go home with each other. Gacy went home with the wife of a couple who was with them, and the husband went home with them. Karen never set foot in their house again. She said what in the world is going on, and he said it was nothing. She’d never heard anything about him with another man. Oprah asks what the family thought when he was jailed for sodomy of a 15 year old boy? He said it was consensual. Her mom told her later that as a child he was molested, and she is not trying to use that as a justification for what he did. Oprah says that if everyone who was molested ended up killing people and putting them in a crawlspace, we wouldn’t have a world. Karen agrees.
Karen was with John the hours before his execution. The chief prosecutor felt he got an easier death than he deserved. Leaving the prison and knowing she’d never see him again was really hard. It was a nightmare. You could hear the people chanting. No one ever called her to say Im sorry for your loss after he was executed. Oprah asks what it was like to spend the day before the execution with her brother. He was at peace with it, he said he’d rather be dead than live in prison for the rest of his life. They show a photo of them hugging, taken hours before he was transferred for execution. Karen sees that people may find it hard to believe that she would hug him, but she says that he was her brother. She never knew the evil part of him. She hates that part of him and she told her family that if any appeal ever worked, she’d see to it that he’d never walk the face of the earth again. She never spoke to the victims families, she was not allowed to by attorneys because it was tantamount to admitting that he was guilty. She feels remorse about that. She only told her boss last week who her brother was. The name Gacy has disappeared, she never uses her maiden name. After 31 years of hiding her past, never mentioning that she has a brother, living in a closet, to allow her children and grandchildren a normal life, she is ready to reveal herself to her neighbors on Oprah. The last thing that she said to her brother was that she loved him and forgave him for the the stuff that he… not the crime, she could never forgive that, but for what they were put through.
Oprah thanks her and says it is interesting to hear from people who have to carry on their lives when they are related to some of the most infamous and reviled people in history. Remember to make your car a no-phone zone; no one else needs to die because people are stupidly texting. Thank you.
WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY:
909 people died in Jonestown including almost 300 children in the biggest mass murder suicide in modern history, masterminded by Jim Jones.Jim Jones Jr, the son of Jim Jones has forgiven his dad because they were trying to create a utopian ideal.
Jim Jones Jr has embraced his father’s legacy so that to his children, this particular history is just stories.
John Wayne Gacy, a seemingly functional member of society abducted, raped and murdered 33 yound men and boys.
Karen, sister of Gacy saw no warning signs in her brother, and has forgiven him, but not his crime.
A VERY QUICK SUMMARY:
Even the most reviled, infamous people in history can find forgiveness from their family.