Episode 65: Rielle Hunter’s First Television Interview
Oprah asks is it true that no one in your life thinks that this is a good idea for you to be talking to me? Rielle says that “no one thinks it’s a good idea, but I feel in my heart that it’s the right thing to do.” Oprah asks “why did you want to talk now and you have not spoken before?” Rielle says a lot of it didn’t feel right to speak before, and it felt more right after Johnny claimed paternity publicly. Oprah clarifies, Johnny meaning John Edwards? Yes, says Rielle, I do. It’s his birth name. Oprah asks why you call him Johnny? Rielle says “When I first met him, I couldn’t get the word “John” out, you know? He didn’t seem like John to me. So I said, “This may sound weird, but can I call you Johnny?” And he said: “Well, that’s my name. So, yes.”
Oprah says “So you’ve been described in a lot of different ways. Gold digger. Home wrecker. New-age airhead. Do you think that you have been unfairly judged?” Rielle says “Yes, I believe it’s…well, it’s not accurate. That’s not who I am.” Oprah says “Well, the intention of this interview for me is to find out who you are. So let’s start with gold digger. Were you after John Edwards because of money? Fame? Attention?” Rielle says “No, I was not ever after him. I met him, and there was a very strong connection, an attraction. There was no me pursuing, wanting something from him. None of that.” Rielle says that she is absolutely not a home wrecker. “It is not my experience that a third party wrecks a home. I believe the problems exist before a third party comes into the picture.” Oprah asks why does she think people see her so negatively? Rielle says “Well, because of the affair, and also because a lot of people bought into the myth of the marriage…the Edwards marriage as being a storybook story and it was so perfect and so wonderful, and I destroyed it. So it fits into the two-dimensional story line.” Oprah says “Help people to understand, if you can, or help me to understand, because the world sees you as that person. You are viewed as the mistress who came in and stole the politician. So what do you want people to know about that?” Rielle replies “First of all, in order for that to happen, you must be invited in. People aren’t property. You can’t steal someone else’s husband. You can’t steal someone’s wife. It’s not property.” Oprah says “So let’s go back to how this started. How did you meet? When I interviewed Elizabeth Edwards last year, one of the things that struck me is she said she couldn’t believe or didn’t even understand a woman like yourself who could stand outside or stand at a bar and say to a married man, “You’re hot.” She made a point of saying that, “Who does that?” So I’m asking you, who does that?” Rielle says “Well, I did… It happened because I saw him inside the Regency.” (a hotel in New York City) “We were in there, and we noticed each other and there was a mutual staring going on. But it was just a connection like…“ Oprah asks “Did you think, “Oh, there’s John Edwards?”” Rielle says she did not know it was John Edwards. Rielle says “I didn’t pay a lot of attention to the Kerry/Edwards campaign. I had a lot going on in my life at that time. I wasn’t big into politics.” Rielle says “He was looking at me, and I was looking at him and he got up and left. Then my friend went over to who he was sitting with and asked, “Was that John Edwards?” And he said, “Yes, it was.” I went over and started talking to that man, as well. His name was Tony. We went over to Tony, and I said, “I can’t believe that was John Edwards. He’s so hot.” And Tony said: “You should have told him that. You should have come over and told him that. He would have loved to hear that.”
Oprah asks How did it come about that they connected? Rielle says “It was nothing. Another friend of mine came to join us, and I had no more thoughts of John Edwards. Zero. Then, we were walking out of the Regency to go get dinner, and then he came around the corner and saw me standing on the street. And he lit up. He was just so excited. I mean, just lit up like a Christmas tree. White lights, just like bright as can be. I just turned to him and said, “You’re so hot.” And he practically jumped in my arms, and I said to him, “I can help you.” And he said: “I want your help. I need your help.”” Oprah asks “Did you feel the connection that you had sensed when he was across the room?” Times a hundred says Rielle. Oprah asks what he said to her? Rielle says “I want your help. I need your help. And I said, “Do you have e-mail?” And he said, “No. Here. I’m staying here. Call me. This is the name I’m staying under. Call me.” I said, “How long are you staying?” He said, “Until tomorrow morning. Call me.” Oprah asks “When you said to John Edwards, “I can help you,” what did you mean?” Rielle says she wanted to help him “See his authentic self. Be more his authentic self so people could see who he really was.” Oprah asks how she was planning on doing that? “I had no plans. None at all. Just my heart felt I could help him,” says Rielle. Oprah asks “When you left wherever you were to go to his hotel room, was there no part of you that says, “Maybe I shouldn’t do that?’” No, says Rielle. Oprah asks if she knew he was married? Rielle responds “I did know he was married, but I didn’t know what their marriage was like.”
Oprah asks “Did you have that conversation about helping him?” Rielle says “We had a very, very long conversation, yes…about helping, and he wanted help. He wanted to be more authentic. He wanted to live a life of truth. He wanted to change his life.”Oprah says, “In all this time you’re having this conversation, you’re also feeling this heat, this vibe, this magnetic force… and you can sense that he’s feeling it too? Rielle says “Yes. It was obvious.” When Oprah asks if she stayed the night, Rielle says “I think that that now I say, “Okay, now fade to black.” Here’s the thing: This whole journey has been so hard for me. I am a really private person with my personal life.”
Oprah says “But you can just forget about your personal life being private because you’ve been so exposed?”Rielle says “No, but here’s the thing. I’ve been so exposed with a bunch of lies, because what’s been said about me—all my personal life has been written about and exposed—the facts are incorrect. It was all incorrect. That also bothers me because I am very much a person committed to truth.” Oprah says, “Now it’s the next day. Then began what?”
Rielle says there were a series of long conversations on the phone… four hours at a time. Oprah says “So the next day, you’re on the phone for four hours. Several days later, you realize what?” Rielle: I’m in love. Oprah asks what are you thinking about his situation? Rielle says “Oh, this is very difficult because … being a person who’s committed to truth and living a life where you’re not hiding, it’s almost like a cosmic joke to fall in love with someone who’s living a big lie. I had such judgment about anyone living a lie.”
Oprah asks Rielle if she thought about John’s wife? Rielle says “Oh yes, definitely… I think about his wife and his children. And it was very hard. Very, very hard. What’s so hard about it is that the power of the love does override all the issues that come up and all the judgments and all my: “This is wrong. What you’re doing is wrong.” Oprah says “So you are obviously a person who is on a spiritual path. You’ve mentioned truth here several times. What part of you could make that okay then to be with this married man with children?” Rielle says “Because he was available. He wanted to be with me, and their marriage had problems for many, many years… He has been honest with me since our first meeting completely.” She says that he disclosed everything to her in his life. Oprah says that there are choices on the journey, did she ever think he should call her after he sorted out the mess of his life? Rielle says that their hearts were louder than their minds. Oprah asks how did Elizabeth Edwards come to know about this affair? Rielle says “On the morning of December 31, [2006], she found the cell phone that I bought for him. And called me, and I answered the phone. I said, “Hey, baby,” and she hung up on me. I bought him a cell phone that looked just like his work phone so he could talk to me wherever he was and, whenever he was, people would think he was on his work phone. He calls me back a little later saying that it’s over. “We’re done. We’re over.” I assumed that she was standing there when he said that, and he was in a traumatic state. His worlds had just collided, and he hung up the phone.”
Oprah asks what did she do? Rielle says “I didn’t cry. I had the thought: “What do you mean we’re over? We’re just getting started.”” Oprah says But you didn’t cry. Rielle says “Not then. I cried a number of times over the next few days. I cried hysterically a number of times over the next few days. It was a terrible time.“ Oprah says that Elizabeth found out shortly after and he announced his candidacy for the presidency of the United States. Did he talk to you about the fact that he was going to announce his running for President of the United States? Rielle says that he was in extreme conflict about it. “He didn’t know if it was the right thing to do because he had personal problems and an inner conflict about having all these personal problems that could happen at any moment and an inner pull to wanting to serve. Plus he was, I believe, addicted to campaigning, and that was going on. And he had a staff who wanted him- all their paychecks and all of their livelihoods depended on him announcing. And Elizabeth wanted him to.” Rielle did not think he should run. “I think that he has a great capacity to serve. I’m conservative in that way. I believe in truth. I think you need to get all your ducks in a row and live a life of integrity before you step out into the public.”
Oprah says that sounds beautiful but can she understand that people find this hypocritical. Rielle understands the contradiction, agrees that it’s huge. Oprah asks “Would you also agree, or not, that you were out of alignment, you were in contradiction, you were out of integrity with yourself?” Rielle says “No, interestingly enough. That’s what’s just so weird about it. I followed my heart, and I believe it was the right thing to do, which is weird. I get how weird that is. I didn’t make a commitment to Elizabeth. I wasn’t the one lying to her, and I was supporting him in his process, and his intentions never wavered. I knew what he wanted. He just had a really unique way of getting there, to live a life of truth… So I felt like I would just continue supporting him and loving him until he got to where he needed to be.”
In March 2007, Elizabeth and John held a press conference announcing her cancer had returned but the Presidential campaign would go on. Rielle and John’s daughter Frances Quinn was conceived in May 2007. Rielle says the baby was conceived at he end of May. She didn’t know she was pregnant until July. Oprah asks “At what point in there did John have the announcement that they were going to renew their vows?” July. Oprah asks “So when John Edwards is renewing his vows with Elizabeth Edwards, he knows that you are pregnant?.. How can you make that okay? You’re pregnant, carrying this man’s child. You knew it was his child, because you weren’t seeing anyone else.” Rielle says that “I wasn’t seeing anyone else… We both knew it was his child.” Oprah asks How did it make her feel? Rielle says “Terrible. My own judgment of someone who stands before God and makes a vow crushes me on the inside. I mean, just crushes me that someone can do that, that anyone can do that, because of the way I’m built. I could never do that… I understood where he was in his process.” Rielle says that she never thought about getting out because her married boyfriend turned into the father of their child. Oprah asks how he reacted to the news of her pregnancy and Rielle says that he was “very gracious.” Oprah says, “come on,” and Rielle says that he was. He was in the campaign at the time. Oprah laughs when Rielle says that he was gracious. She asks Did John Edwards ever ask you to get an abortion? Rielle: Never. Oprah: Implied that you should get an abortion? Rielle: Never. Oprah: So he was fully supportive of you having his baby. Rielle says “I wouldn’t say “fully supportive.” I think that he had a lot of issues with the timing, and it created a lot of conflict within him. It was not great timing from our perspective.” Oprah: Meaning he was running for the presidency. Rielle says “He was married to someone else. He was in the middle of running for the presidency. It’s not great timing.” Oprah asks if she was hoping to get pregnant with his baby? Rielle says “I don’t know consciously if it was hoping. I was so in love with him. When you’re in love with him, that gets activated.” Oprah asks if they were using birth control? They never used birth control. Oprah says “Well, then. Then you knew it could happen at any time?” Rielle replies “I would have been fine if it happened. I was in love with him.” Oprah asks if John thought she was using birth control and Rielle says no.
Seven months into the pregnancy, a tabloid reporter snapped Rielle’s picture, and their secret was almost exposed. Instead of confessing the truth about Rielle’s pregnancy, a new cover-up was concocted. John’s friend and aide, Andrew Young, claimed paternity. Andrew and his wife, Cheri, went into hiding with Rielle, jetting between hotels and private homes until she gave birth.
The National Enquirer got the picture of her on December 12, [2007], in North Carolina. Rielle says that John was “extremely angry, and he screamed at me. He’s not a screamer.” Oprah says let’s talk about how the Andrew Young paternity scheme came about. Rielle says “That was exactly in that moment. I was on the phone in Andrew’s office, in Andrew’s house. Johnny was screaming at me on the phone, and Andrew was sitting directly across from me. He said: “Just tell him I’ll say it’s mine. I’ll say it’s mine.” I heard him say that, and I looked at him like he was insane, like I was not even going to repeat it. I thought: “There is no way I’m going to tell him that. You are out of your mind, and that ain’t happening. That was a bridge too far for me. You are not claiming paternity for my child.” Oprah states that Andrew Young describes it a completely different way. He says he got a phone call from John Edwards saying, “Will you do this?” Rielle says “Now, that may have actually happened. But this happened before that… This was the night before that, so somehow Andrew spoke to Johnny after he suggested it to me. Because I didn’t repeat it.”Oprah clarifies “So you’re saying the idea for taking responsibility for being the father of your child came from Andrew Young…Why did you go along with it?” Rielle says “That’s my biggest regret.” Oprah asks again, “Why did you go along with it?” Rielle says, “My biggest mistake. I made a big mistake to go along with it. It took me about three days to get on board. I was fighting tooth and nail. This was just a bridge too far for me… They came back to me and said Cheri had agreed, that I was the only one who was not agreeing. I couldn’t believe Cheri agreed. How could she agree to this? She was my out. I really thought that that would be…” Oprah says “That his wife is not going to agree.” Rielle says “Ever going to go along with that. Ever, ever, ever. And Johnny called me back and said, “Andrew says yes and Cheri’s on board, and you’re the only one who won’t get on board.” It was a horrid time, Oprah. Devastating. Devastating.” Oprah asks “When you finally said yes, you said yes because of what?” Rielle says “Well, because of my daughter… I thought that she had so many things against her. That would be a bad thing for both of them, a really bad thing… If she at all blamed herself for…if he got out of the race because of her, me being pregnant with her. And if he always had that thing in his head, “I could have been president,” and some blame toward her at all. And if she somehow flipped it in her head that it was her fault coming into the world. That was too hard for me. So that was the only reason I said yes.” Oprah says “So you were thinking about your daughter when you said, “Yes, I’m going to go along with Andrew.” Can you honestly say to me that there’s no part of you that was also thinking about yourself in that?”Rielle, wiping away a tear says, “No, I didn’t care. Something happened in me. Maybe it was there all along, but something in our relationship happened when I became pregnant. It did not become about us anymore. It became about her.”
Rielle gave birth on February 27th, 2008, And John Edwards met his daughter on March 19. Rielle says the meeting was “Filled with love, very emotional for me.” Oprah asks what was it like for her watching him do that interview with Bob Woodruff? Rielle says “It was surreal. It was surreal.” Oprah: And he is asked directly, point blank, “Are you the father of that baby?” Of Quinn. And he lies about it. Rielle: Yes. She says there were a lot of tears when she watched it, she was devastated. Rielle didn’t want him to do the interview, but Elizabeth did. She wanted him to tell the whole truth, but she didn’t know about the baby. He came clean after the interview and told her. Oprah asks who he was afraid of finding out, the public or Elizabeth, and Rielle says Elizabeth. John called Rielle afterwards and said that it didn’t mean anything. Oprah splutters a little. Rielle says that he was trying to fix what was broken- not a defense, but he was trying to hold on while drowning. Oprah says “He’s denied you, denied your child, lied on national television point blank, close up. What makes you think he’s not lying to you?” Rielle replies “ I know him like the back of my hand. I know when someone’s lying. I can feel it. He’s not lying. He’s messed up. He was screwed up. He was trying to make his life one of integrity.
Oprah says “Well, this is making no sense to a lot of people I’m sure. You’re talking about him trying to get to his truth, and all we’re seeing is lies and lies and more lies and more lies.” Rielle says “Right, trying to cover and keep the way life was. “I’m trying to fix it. I’ve got to fix it. I’ve got to make it better, so I’m going to keep lying.” … It wasn’t working. Life had changed, who he was had changed, who he is was changing. The old remedies didn’t work anymore.”
Former aide, Andrew Young dropped a bombshell in January 2010. In his tell-all book, The Politician, Andrew says he and Cheri found a sex tape John made with Rielle. Rielle says the Youngs took the tape from her, but the one thing she doesn’t dispute was that it’s her and John on the video. Oprah says “So let’s talk about the infamous sex tape. First of all, why did you all decide to put yourselves on tape having sex? I’m assuming that’s what’s on the tape, right? Sex.” Rielle says, “There is sex…I don’t think there was a lot of thought going on in the heat of the moment. It was something behind closed doors that was private, and I believe should remain private. So it was meant for that, and then, after the fact of doing this, because of being a public person and because of it being taped, we said: Well, that was not a great idea. Let’s do something to prevent anyone from seeing it, because we don’t want anyone to see our private business. So I took action to destroy the tape and kept it in my personal belongings so no one would get ahold of the tape.” She thought she had destroyed it by cutting it up.
Oprah asks why didn’t you burn it or stomp on it or throw it in the incinerator? Rielle says “Right, that was the first thought now that comes to me, “Why didn’t I burn it?” I have no idea why that thought didn’t occur to me then.”Oprah says, “Tell me this. Was John Edwards upset with you that that tape had not been destroyed?” Rielle replies “I think he’s as mortified or exposed as I am. I mean, it’s not a good thing for either one of us. It’s violating on every single level.”
Just as that media storm was dying down, there was another one. It wasn’t the article in GQ that caused an uproar, it was the photographs. Oprah thought that GQ interview was really a solid representation of Rielle. It was really a good interview, but she couldn’t understand the photos. Rielle says what a mistake that was- huge mistake. Oprah says “It seemed like such a contradiction of what you’re saying in the article. What you’re saying you want us to see, you want us to see that you’re not the home wrecker. You’re not the flashy broad who comes in and takes the politician.” Rielle says “It’s not that I want you to see that. I want to express who I am. And you can see whatever you see. But I’m not those things, and the photos make you believe, or go along with that story line, that that’s who I am. Big mistake. One I will never repeat again. Live and learn.” Oprah says “I know I’m going to sound like Dr. Phil here, but what were you thinking?.. Because you actually have to take your pants off.” Rielle says “Right. What I was thinking was, “I would like to have one sexy shot where the world can see me as a beautiful woman, as opposed to all those photos that are out there of me looking like some Wicked Witch of the West—the ugliest thing you could ever imagine.” So there’s definitely ego in that. Look where ego gets you. Oprah reiterates “Big ego move on your part.” Rielle says “Big ego move. Big mistake. No excuses, though. I made the mistake. I take responsibility for the mistake. It won’t happen again.” Oprah asks “What did Johnny think about those photos?” Rielle says he said, “”Where are your pants?” He knew I was upset about them, but I think that he felt protective. He wished he would have been there to say, “No, don’t do that.””
Oprah asks what’s the status of the relationship now? Rielle says “It’s private., Oprah, it is. Because what we’ve been through, I need a boundary. We need boundaries on our personal lives.” Oprah says she accepts that and says that it seems odd that now John is no longer with his wife, all the secrets could come out- she doesn’t know why Rielle couldn’t say that. Rielle says that she needs boundaries, and that John does see Quinn. Oprah asks Does he know you’re doing this interview and how does he feel about that? Rielle says “He didn’t think it was a great idea, but he supports me if I feel like in my heart I need to do it.” She still loves him very much. Oprah asks if John still loves her? Rielle says “I believe he does. You would have to ask him, but in my experience, the answer is yes… It’s my experience that he loves me. Oprah: Do you trust him? Rielle: Very much. Oprah: Do you want to marry him? Rielle replies “I’m not sure I want to get married ever. I’ve been married, and I mean, I can’t say never. I don’t know if that’s something I want. I don’t need marriage to define who I am. It’s not a pull for me.” Oprah asks “When this is all said and done and we look back on this time of you, Rielle Hunter, the mistress and all of that, what is it you want people to really understand about what has happened here?” Rielle says “All of their feelings that they’re feeling and hatred that’s directed toward me has to do with their fears or their anger and disappointment and sadness about their mother cheating on their father or their father or their husband or their spouse. It has to do with them, and it doesn’t have to do with me, because they don’t know me.” Oprah: Why can’t it just be that they think that it’s wrong? Rielle replies “People can think that it’s wrong for me to do that. They can think it’s wrong for anyone to do that, but it still has to do with them thinking it’s wrong. It doesn’t have to do with me. It’s their judgement… Based upon their life experience, it has to do with them.” Oprah asks What is the lesson in all of this for you? Rielle says “There’s been a lot of them because I have become a better person from the process—more compassionate, more patient, more understanding, more aware. And so has he.” Rielle wants people to know her true authentic self, following her heart. Her intention is never to hurt anyone. Oprah says Do you think you hurt Elizabeth Edwards? Rielle says “I think Elizabeth has been hurt by this whole process. I think Johnny’s been hurt by the whole process. I think everyone in his family has been hurt by the whole process.” Oprah says “That was really good, but you didn’t answer that question. Do you think you hurt her?” Rielle says “Do I think I hurt Elizabeth? You would have to ask Elizabeth that. I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that.” Oprah asks Do you regret being a mistress? Rielle says “No, because I learned a lot. It went against every part of who I am and everything I believe, but I learned so much from it. So I don’t regret it, but I would not repeat it.”
Oprah asks Rielle what her life is like now. Rielle is a full-time mom, Quinn gets child support and John helps support Rielle’s life in her house. Oprah asks one more time the status of their relationship and Rielle says that it is private. Oprah thanks her and they shake hands.
WHAT WE LEARNED TODAY:
Rielle Hunter wanted to help John Edwards be more his authentic self so people could see who he really was.
Despite the media scrutiny and Oprah interview, Rielle Hunter is “a really private person” with her personal life.
She believes that you need to get all your ducks in a row and live a life of integrity before you step out into the public.
She does not know if she hurt Elizabeth Edwards or not.
She does not regret anything that happened because she has become a better person from the process—more compassionate, more patient, more understanding, more aware.
A VERY QUICK SUMMARY:
Any issues you may have with the John Edwards/ Rielle Hunter affair/ pregnancy/ cover-up, are to do with you, and that doesn’t have to do with Rielle, because you don’t know her.